will a Turkey pattern you?

Ask questions of and offer advice to fellow turkey hunters
Dank
 
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RE: will a Turkey pattern you?

Postby Dank » May 15th, 2008, 6:19 am

ORIGINAL: JPH

Do your best to make a small footprint while you're hunting turkeys and they will be turkeys.

 
My sentiments exactly.
 
 
Failure is often our best teacher.

Barry
 
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RE: will a Turkey pattern you?

Postby Barry » June 2nd, 2008, 11:24 am

I'm with JPH.
You guys are giving turkeys way too much credit.
They have brains the size of a quarter at most.
In order to "pattern man" they would have to be able to think and reason. If they could do this you would never kill one.
What turkeys have in their favor is that they stay in a constant state of paranoia, afraid that something is going to get them.
You can spook birds out of an area, you can make a bird call shy. BUT in doing so that bird has not patterned you, it is just this constant fear that allows him to survive.  
That's my 2 cents.
 
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RE: will a Turkey pattern you?

Postby Fan Club » June 3rd, 2008, 5:10 am

In order to "pattern man" they would have to be able to think and reason. If they could do this you would never kill one.

 
Sure you could, your brain being so much bigger and all.
 
This thread is crackin' me up. Why doesn't anyone ever mention the size of a deer's brain? The correlation between brain and body size of any living creature has no relevance to it's ability to "think", "reason" or "pattern," which incidentally are all processes generally attributed to humans.
 
Everyone in this thread is in agreement with what they are saying, just tripping over words and interpretations. Is a deer then supposed to be "smarter" (another human characteristic) than a turkey because he has a bigger brain? If I never hear the reference to the size of a turkey's brain again, it will be too soon, as the very notion implies that a turkey can indeed think, just not very much, because his brain is so small. If they can't think, why do they have a brain at all?
 
Let's face it, these critters are all genetically pre-programed to survive. It's what they do. A mature buck or gobbler will sure as hell know that you are hunting him after several unsuccessful attempts and change his habits.
 
It's arbitrary whether one chooses a term such as "patterning" or simply wishes to call it paranoia (again, both human associations) as they both imply the same thing- the animal has the ability to adapt and survive.
 
JB
"The joy of living is his, who has the heart to demand it." Teddy Roosevelt

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RE: will a Turkey pattern you?

Postby tracebusta32 » June 3rd, 2008, 9:01 am

Fan Club, Very well put...They will figure out where the danger is coming from if you have put them in that situation a time or two and then they will move on...is that patterning or paranoia? you say tomato I say tomatoe.
 
 
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Barry
 
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RE: will a Turkey pattern you?

Postby Barry » June 3rd, 2008, 12:33 pm

So you guys are saying that turkeys DO have the ability to reason?
 
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RE: will a Turkey pattern you?

Postby Fan Club » June 3rd, 2008, 3:21 pm

So you guys are saying that turkeys DO have the ability to reason?

 
Thanks for being a good sport Barry. You might actually call it genetically programed instincts, that when applied translate into a process bordering reasoning, for lack of a better description.
 
The gobbler knows that the hen is supposed to meet him halfway and when she doesn't he gets supicious. The gobbler knows that he should see a live hen when he closes the range on hen calls, when he doesn't he hangs up. The gobbler knows your calls came from the timber, not the field where your decoys are, and continues to look into the woods. The gobbler knows that tree calls aren't supposed to come from the ground and flies down the other way. The gobbler knows the pecking order of all of the other toms in the area and becomes irate when an intruder is presented in the form of a full strut decoy.
 
All of these instances suggest that there is some form of information processing taking place, that compare real time input against programmed instinct and goes far beyond simple paranoia. Fortunately, his desire to procreate is slightly stronger than his survival instinct for a couple months each spring or we would all have a real tough time tagging one.
 
I'm hesitant to give a turkey too much credit as well. One of my favorite quotes is by Ray Eye, Missouri turkey calling champion and professional hunter-
 
"They're just out there bein' turkeys."
 
But Ray's quote is a reference to hunters overthinking the situation, not the turkey's inability to think. And to be sure, it is a tongue in cheek remark as an 'ol pro like Ray has been outfoxed by enough gobblers to know that there's something more than paranoia going on in that turkey's brain.
 
JB
"The joy of living is his, who has the heart to demand it." Teddy Roosevelt

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JPH
 
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RE: will a Turkey pattern you?

Postby JPH » June 4th, 2008, 3:35 am

ORIGINAL: Fan Club

The gobbler knows that the hen is supposed to meet him halfway and when she doesn't he gets supicious. The gobbler knows that he should see a live hen when he closes the range on hen calls, when he doesn't he hangs up. The gobbler knows your calls came from the timber, not the field where your decoys are, and continues to look into the woods. The gobbler knows that tree calls aren't supposed to come from the ground and flies down the other way. The gobbler knows the pecking order of all of the other toms in the area and becomes irate when an intruder is presented in the form of a full strut decoy.

All of these instances suggest that there is some form of information processing taking place....


 
Yes, but it is far from patterning. Patterning would imply that the turkey actually makes the leap to understanding that those noises were produced by a predator. I know that you think we are splitting hairs here, but I disagree. Far too many hunters look too deeply into the mind of a turkey and therefore cheat themselves out of chances to fill tags.
 
Short story to illistrate my point: I had two strutters mincing up to my decoy at close range. Suddenly they saw me sitting there and dropped out of strut. It was too late. I thumped the closest bird and his partner turned and ran down the logging road. I was half-way out of my seat when the surviving tom screeched to a halt an looked back. He saw me there, but he could not resist the oppertunity. He actually turned back, ran up to the fallen gobbler and began to spur it! I was looking at him on one knee, face net down, at ten steps. I finally had to get up an shoo him away. Not once did that bird have a conscious thought. It was all a pre-programed genetic response.

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hoosierhunter
 
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RE: will a Turkey pattern you?

Postby hoosierhunter » June 4th, 2008, 4:22 am

As Herman the little German used to say on, "Rowan and Martins Laugh In"
                          "VERY INTERESTING!"
 
 
 
                   GOOD LUCK, GOD BLESS, AND STAY SAFE
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RE: will a Turkey pattern you?

Postby Fan Club » June 4th, 2008, 4:45 am

I know that you think we are splitting hairs here, but I disagree.

 
Fair enough.

Far too many hunters look too deeply into the mind of a turkey and therefore cheat themselves out of chances to fill tags.

 
Oh, absolutely. That's why I'm so fond of using Ray's quote. When one of my friends has been duped by the same bird for the fourth time, I like to tell them; "You're thinking about it too much, they're just out there bein' turkeys." This never fails to get their ire, as it implies that the superior mind of the human has been outfoxed by the humble turkey. Again.
 
Several years ago, my father sat in a tree row two mornings in a row where the birds usually exit the timber after flydown and watched them come out at the end of the field. On the third morning I was along and he chose to sit at the end of the field, so I sat in the treerow. The birds came out right in my lap and I shot what is still my best bird, a 5 year old monster with 1 and 1/2 inch spurs. Ol' pop had out thunk his self. Again.
 
We'll never fully know what goes on in the mind of a turkey, but it sure is interesting to speculate. After weeks of fairly predictable behavior, a turkey will suddenly break tradition. And for every unwritten rule, there are exceptions that all of us have witnessed...
 
JB
"The joy of living is his, who has the heart to demand it." Teddy Roosevelt

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grunt_doc
 
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RE: will a Turkey pattern you?

Postby grunt_doc » June 4th, 2008, 4:56 am

It's the same as saying that waterfowl make a conscious decision to fly south.  They don't.  It's just instinct.  People try too hard to place human actions and thought processes into wildlife.  Ever see a Disney movie?
 
When I was a kid, I was convinced that deer knew where to cross the roads, because that's what the sign said.  It didn't help that my father told me that....  I can't wait to do it to my son Jack!
 
Doc

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