MN DNR proposed zone consolidation

arrowsonly
 
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Re: MN DNR proposed zone consolidation

Postby arrowsonly » November 22nd, 2011, 8:48 am

We have changes here in Cheese land also; we have hunted Wednesday thru Sunday as long as I can remember, I have heard talk on this Message board that we are going to a 7 day season. I have been two busy working 7am to 7pm 7days a week this fall, like everyone else working for less & less money every year while the cost of everything is going up...

I think I may put MN on hold for a while; I can always road trip over for a overnight scouting trip if nothing else,catch a few trout and pick some mushrooms up on Oak Ridge !

We would love to have you come on over & hunt here any time I would like to return the favor, we have more turkeys & public land than you can shake a stick at. In May there are several OTC tags left in prime zones 1,3,and 4 with public lands all over. There are even farmers who claim crop damage and would love some one to come and remove a few turkeys from there fields.

I am always busy in the spring since I work in a Bike shop, but would love to get together with a few guys from MN for a turkey camp !
look em' in the eye before you give em' the shaft...
be a man hunt public land...

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turkey junky
 
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Re: MN DNR proposed zone consolidation

Postby turkey junky » November 23rd, 2011, 6:37 pm

yeah its sad to say but ive been thinking of put n my home state of minnesota on hold for a few yrs at least for turkey i love going out west and chase n them white featherd birds and im not all for the proposed changes we are change n things to make a allready simple job more simple for the mndnr? we basicly throw tons of tags away each time period & $/chance for people who didnt fill a tag to do so each turkey season? now we are change n traditional turkey units & let n people by tags OTC for the last 4 time periods & dont know how it will effect the turkeys??? im not going to give my $ to the mndnr for them to do that... my main concern is MNDNR keeping a quality hunt for everybody in each time period not only the 1st few time periods i was thinking of starting to send in for the time period wear MN fishing opener co-inside but im think n twice now if they are makeing it EZ for tons of guys to all do the same thing!!! the # of units & draw system for each time period keep the number of people in each unit set to keep a quality hunt & tuff luck if u dont get drawn now all that is going by the way-side to make the MNDNRS job more simple!!!??? next spring cheese land here i come ill go to WISC twice b4 i go to MN next yr... ill go trout fish n & pick morels also & if i see a ton of birds i mite break down and by a tag OTC but i doubt it ill just go to KS or OK instead of MN

goshawk
 
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Re: MN DNR proposed zone consolidation

Postby goshawk » January 26th, 2012, 11:18 am

Just registered here to add my 2 cents. I with turkey junky that this is a case of the DNR "fixing" what was a high quality hunt.

If you drew an early season in the past on ave every X years, count on that now becoming X + Y years. There are only four(?) seasons in the drawing and one zone in the entire southeast area. I know my group's odds of drawing an early season are most likely going down, significantly. But you can go in a late season along with anyone else who wants to, so they are increasing "opportunity" (and license sales)... swell.

If you hunt any public land or private land that the landowner opens up to turkey hunters, count on having a lot of opportunity for bonding with other groups of hunters.

But of course, the DNR survey data supports this change. For example, the survey asked a question like 'what is most important to you in turkey hunting, Joe Turkey Hunter?' and because fewer people checked the box that said 'killing a turkey', the DNR conveniently concluded that 'killing a turkey is not that important to turkey hunters so we are going to sell as many licenses as we can and cram as many hunters on the landscape as we can until success rates drop below the 10-20% range.'

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turkey junky
 
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Re: MN DNR proposed zone consolidation

Postby turkey junky » January 26th, 2012, 12:54 pm

good man goshawk & welcome to the forums...

i agree fully with you as you will tell in many of my comments on this thread... i
dont really understand why the MNDNR messed around with the MN hunt/zones for any good reason??? & or any benefits the wild turkeys in MN will receive from changing the system the way they did??? anybody please jump in & inform me...???


they did it to make things more simple for the MNDNR come spring time? so instead of have all them zones & needing to do a little work & draw tags for each zone the MNDNR says lets just lump everybody into 1 hunt unit & be done with it!!!??? no reason mentioned in there press release was FOR THE BENEFIT OF THE WILD TURKEY WE ARE DOING THIS they just said we really dont know what this will do for the overall harvest/population??? then why the mess with thing MNDNR??? common sense stuff!!!


they also did it to expand hunting opportunities like that justifies them change n things for NO GOOD REASON AT ALL??? MNDNR basically says well we dont know what impact this will have on the turkeys in MN? but hey look at it like this you can hunt a bigger area??? ??? um ok ???


like goshawk says the draw hunt system & applying for tags B4 hand kept the MN turkey hunt a quality hunt for everybody period!!! now they just lessened everybodys chance of drawing a tag by lumping us all in together nobody seems to get that i guess goshawk arrowsonly & my self???


hey goshawk wouldnt the MNDNR opening up them tags that got wasted in many hunt units last to hunters who wanted to pay for them tags that go unsold make the MNDNR & MN wild turkeys as much if not more $$$ & raise the quality of the MN turkey hunt & experience & promote MN wild turkeys that much more???


i know the folks at the MNDNR went to college for yrs & could be working higher paying fields but they are not & they chose the job they chose but that college degree dosent justify messing with a quality hunt for no other reason then makeing there job come MN turkey draw day that much more simple/EZ by any stretch of the imagination & it surely dosent justify them make n changes that can effect MN wild turkey with out at least haveing a idea of the impact of there needless changes to a QUALITY MN TURKEY HUNT that was tradition here in MN for years for no good reason!!! at least down in SE MN trout country it was tradition come april/may...

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dewey
 
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Re: MN DNR proposed zone consolidation

Postby dewey » January 27th, 2012, 11:22 am

First off I would like to welcome goshawk to the T&TH hunting forum.

As for the consolidation of the zones from ~81 to 12 I would like to point out that the MNDNR had a link on their website that listed the proposed changes and 85% of the responding turkey hunters approved of the zone consolidation. Democracy rules and I can't think of too many things that would garner 85% support. I like the zone consolidation for numerous reasons but the biggest reason I support the change is because it allows me and my hunting party the opportunity to hunt more land and still be able to hunt our traditional areas. States like Kansas and Wisconsin have larger zones just like what MN has done and WI is widely regarded as one of the best turkey hunting states there is. Also the MN DNR tried to break up the zones according to the whether it is forest, farmland or bluff country. I would also point out with the zones being larger the MNDNR must feel that the turkeys are evenly distributed amongst that zone and that is a good thing. I have been watching the number of tags increase every year for the last 4-5 years and that is a great indication of how the state turkey population is doing.

I also believe that this will lower the MN DNR's overall administration costs as now they only need to do a drawing time and harvest statistics for 12 zones instead of 81. In a time of the MN DNR getting less funds it is in their best interest to try and be as efficient as possible. As for the overall health of the turkey population I do not see this affecting the population for the simple reason only about 30% of hunters harvest a turkey anyway and toms can breed numerous hens in the spring so killing one tom is not a big deal when the next one will gladly come in and take his spot.

As for bag limits the overall population in MN is a fraction of what WI and other states have so increasing the bag limits coupled with a rough winter or two could have a severe impact on the overall turkey population. Granted this winter has been extremely mild for MN standards this is far from a normal winter.

As for drawing a tag with the larger zones the only way your odds would get worse is if every old zone in the new zone had a lower draw rate than the zone you were previously in. Also worst case if you do not get drawn for one of the first 4 time periods you can purchase a OTC tag for the last 4 time periods. I know that hunting earlier in the year is widely regarded as the best but T&TH magazine and other publications have proven that there are roughly 2 peak breeding times. One in the early season and one during the later part of the season when the first group of hens did not get breed. Plus introducing new turkey hunters to the woods is a GREAT thing and it will improve the importance of turkey hunting in the eye of the public when we have a larger voice. If people are concerned about running into other hunters on public land go farther from the road and you will lose most of your competition. Plus it is PUBLIC land nobody has any more right to it than anyone else.

my 2 cents.

Dewey
"Strength does not come from physical capacity. It comes from an indomitable will." --Mahatma Gandhi

"Never confuse a single defeat with a final defeat."--F. Scott Fitzgerald, American writer

       

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turkey junky
 
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Re: MN DNR proposed zone consolidation

Postby turkey junky » January 27th, 2012, 5:21 pm

dewey its good that you & 85% like or back the new regs but a lot of the older & none computer savy hunters i know in MN say who are these 85% & have they ever hunted a state wear a draw tag system isn't the norm or they sell all OTC tags??? most the hunters in MN only hunt 2-3 days at most for a bird out of a 5-7 day season that's not the norm wear we hunt or in our group hunt till u get a bird? so are them 85% the same that only hunt 2-3 days & maybe 4-6 hrs each day out in the field then they go to town eat & drink 4 the rest of the day??? i mean each to there own & hunt how you want but to them folks bag n a turkey isn't the priority so a quality hunt means other things to them... but that 85% doesn't represent me or anybody i know if that is how they hunt... maybe 1 uncle i have liked the idea he also wont travel out of state for a turkey & hunts like a mentioned above not very hard hunter 4 turkeys... that seems to be the norm in MN these days ez is better...???


also i didn't hear the MNDNR say any of the reasons dewey mentioned about them feeling the birds are evenly distributed throughout each zone... they just said we are doing this "but hey you guys can hunt more land"...???

also dewey you stated in a previous post that you think most MN hunters wouldn't put all the new land they have opened up to them to use this year due to the unit changes??? they would probably just hunt there same ol stomping/hunting grounds??? but now that's one of your biggest reasons you like the new hunt unit changes??? it gives your party more land to hunt wear u were unable to do so B4...


that's wear me & goshawk are on the same page that there will be more & more hunting parties like yours that see all that new land open to them & beats it down/gives it a try this year rather then them hunting there same ol hunting grounds day in & day out needlessly... that puts groups of hunters that would of never had to compete for land/turkeys until this change came into play into to contact with 1 another or at least leaves the door wide open for that to happen...??? & like it or not that brings down the quality of a hunt for the most of us drawn... that mite also be what the MNDNR means when it says it dosent know what the impact will be on the MN turkeys & its spring hunting season???

im sure 1 of the lame questions the MNDNR asked the 85% of the hunters that liked the changes wasn't do you like to share your hunting spot with other hunting parties??? & if so are you willing to walk 1 mile in the 4:00 am dark to hunt that same area u always hunted that would of gotten a overwhelming NO...

i just wonder what the MNDNR is going to do so different now that it will be saving all this money & man power with this zone consolidation bull???

KANSAS has a OTC tag system except for a resident only unit in the SW... & KS has way more turkeys then MN dose in those rural farm areas then MN they have tons & tons more turkeys then MN dose in general & its a major turkey hunting destination unlike MN it has 3 sub species & a 2 bird limit so the size of the hunt units dosent compare... WI has a liberal tag system wear u don't even have to send in to be able to hunt good early time periods if u know what ur doing they have alot of turkeys & land to hunt that all puts WI on people hunt list if for no other reason then u can have a bunch of tags in WI 2 use on turkeys... you can also hunt more then 1 season in WI & that extends your season unlike MNs goofy 1 bird i time period hunt!!!???

dewey are you saying that MN couldn't sustain a multi bird hunting season??? if so ok that's cool i respect that... but do u understand wear i'm coming from on this topic??? i'm not saying MNDNR needs to lets us kill more turkeys by raising the number of tags in a give n hunt unit or throughout the state of MN for the spring turkey season... i'm just saying let us hunters use/harvest the tags/turkeys the MNDNR already said was ok to be harvested/issued instead of just let n them go to waste & then making drastic new changes for really no good reason for the MN TURKEYS BENEFIT... the number of tags was set by the MNDNR...


the fact that i also watched the tags in many MN hunt areas raise & raise until they were wasting as much as 100+ tags for the 2nd seasons in some hunt areas??? why??? they had no need to raise the number of tags in a area already had to many tags the season B4??? i mean they already had more tags then hunters so what good was it to raise the number of tags higher constantly it nullifies the draw tag system in other areas so???

& if the MNDNR is going to say its ok to shoot X amount of turkeys in a hunt unit area with X amount of hunters & X amount of tags go to wasted/un-issued each season in that hunt unit then why say only 1 guy can tag 1 bird there that season? PLEASE HELP ME ON THAT THEORY??? there basically saying they would rather let the tag go to waste then make the $$$ off of the tag & issue a 2nd tag to a hunter who wants to buy it??? wisconsin knows how to handle that situation that's what i was referring dewey manage the tags they already said was ok to be issued/harvested not adding more tags to a hunt unit...


also the hole u cant go hunt during the last 4 seasons wear the # of tags/hunters are unlimited if you drew/were issued a tag for another season??? if its unlimited its unlimited for everybody that makes no sense also & wastes money/tags once again wear the MNDNR says it was already ok for a unlimited amount of hunters to hunt & turkeys to be harvested??? why punish a serious turkey hunter because he already spent money to draw & purchase a tag & turkey stamp in the state of MN that season...??? why cater to a unknown number of hunters who may or may not buy a tag & not even willing to spend 3$ to apply B4 hand??? it makes no sense...

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Re: MN DNR proposed zone consolidation

Postby goshawk » February 1st, 2012, 2:23 pm

turkeyjunky, the idea that the DNR did this to simplify things and reduce administrative burden doesn't make sense to me either. They changed the zones a while ago to match the deer hunting zones, ELS licensing at every Holiday, and now electronic registration...how much of a "burden" could the permit areas have been?

dewey, I hope you're right and we're wrong; that this turns out to be a good thing. I actually asked for turkey drawing stats from the DNR when I started back in 1996 and once in 2005(?) to see if things were changing. There wasn't much change in the odds of drawing the various unit-seasons. Some of the SE permit areas were much tougher to draw for an early season than others. In other words, in a few units you could draw every 1 or 2 years but in the other units you would have to wait 3 to 5(?). So if you used to hunt one that was easier to draw, you're now competing with all the people who used to apply for the tougher-to-draw units. Not only that, but everyone is now drawing for only 4 seasons. Again, I hope you're right that there will be no change in the odds of drawing an early season, but if I had to bet, I'd say those odds are droppin quite a bit.

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Re: MN DNR proposed zone consolidation

Postby goshawk » February 1st, 2012, 2:52 pm

Just checked the lottery results, and my group did not draw. But that was no surprise. Even under the old system, we probably would not have drawn this year. Next year will interesting because, in our old permit area/season, we would definitely draw licenses... My guess is we will not. Will have to dig out this thread next Feb ! And maybe the next.... and the next... Not trying to be glass-half-empty, but I am seriously looking at SD!

Just curious, did anyone apply for the new giant SE unit, 501, and the second season - with no preference points? Did you get drawn? If you did not, it kinda proves that your odds are going down because, under the old system, there were 300-series permit areas where you could draw the second season every year.

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turkey junky
 
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Re: MN DNR proposed zone consolidation

Postby turkey junky » February 1st, 2012, 3:20 pm

goshawk yes i did draw a unit 501 season B tag we drew 4 tags we all were drawn last season so had a preference of 0-1???...

goshawk how many were in your group...??? this is why i didnt care for the new system
guys that would have drawn a tag every season during a specific hunt period wont now...

they can keep all the land they opened up & just give me back my old unit 349!!! much more quality hunt & draw process....

goshawk
 
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Re: MN DNR proposed zone consolidation

Postby goshawk » February 1st, 2012, 3:58 pm

Good deal -- congratulations. That is encouraging. Guess we'll just have to see how it plays out at this point. You'll have to let us know if it seems any more crowded on public land compared to other years (if you hunt any public land, can't remember..)

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