Turkey Season Will Change if Senate Bill Passes

Hognutz
 
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RE: Turkey Season Will Change if Senate Bill Passes

Postby Hognutz » March 2nd, 2010, 4:39 am

By no means am I selling the latter seasons short. I hunt with an Uncle and his son. Both have land owner preference, so more often than not they get what they apply for. They do apply for the first season. So in order for me to hunt with them, I must do the same. I realize that big ol' toms can be best busted in the latter seasons, there are there to be had in the early as well. Like deer season, some of the biggest bucks are shot late on. But everything being equal, I'd just as soon be hunting opening day than the last weekend. Good luck to you all...Mike
And there I was...Knee deep in grenade pins..

charlie elk
 
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RE: Turkey Season Will Change if Senate Bill Passes

Postby charlie elk » March 3rd, 2010, 6:04 am

Seems pretty clear to me that the Spring 2009 poll DID ask, and that most of these 4000+ hunters are satisfied with the current regulations. I did find that the DNR posted the earlier 2007 and 2008 Spring polls on their webite at http://www.dnr.state.wi.us/org/land/wil ... arvest.htm Neither of these earlier polls specifically referred to hunter satisfaction with the season structure. Although I'm not a pollster, after reading the polls in my opinion the poll questions do a good job of trying to get hunter input & experiences, & are not just a "DNR feel good poll".


Sorry for my mistake regarding 08 vs 09 surveys.[X(] You are correct about the question differences. When I saw the WI Outdoor News article claiming 85% of 10000 turkey hunters satisfied I pulled out my completed survey copy, did not notice I was looking at 08 rather than 09. Then I found a completed copy of the 09 survey. Apparently I was selected 2 years in row.[sm=rolleyes.gif]

However I stand by my opinion the survey is a feel good document no better than any internet style poll asking for a thought. It would be more meaningful if a demographic of drawn turkey hunters, unsuccessful applicants plus some hunters who choose not to hunt turkeys in order to find out why. From talking with hunters who do not hunt turkeys they tell me it is because of the current scheme. Of course this is just ancedotal and it too isn't reason alone to change anything basically the same as DNR surveys.
Wish the DNR would quit wasting our money with these surveys.
We can agree to disagree here.
later,
charlie
If you agree with me call it fact; if you disagree - call it my opinion.
After all - we are talking turkey.

charlie elk
 
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RE: Turkey Season Will Change if Senate Bill Passes

Postby charlie elk » March 3rd, 2010, 7:04 am

One fact that you used when initiating this discussion is that the Wis initial turkey permit applications dropped from ~170,000 in 2009 to 149,000 this year. You used the 21,000 drop as a cause of concern about our future turkey ranks, and a possible good reason for this Bill. On a recent post you again referred to this drop as an "undeniable fact". Well, you should be relieved to hear that the actual numbers are much better.

The Journal article you read must have used preliminary numbers. The actual Final 2010 Spring number, posted on the DNR website is 162,679 first choice applicants, not 149,000.
http://dnr.wi.gov/org/land/wildlife/hun ... spring.pdf

The 2009 number of initial applicants was 169,765, a drop of 7086 (only 4%) to 2010. Not 21,000. "Treerooster" made a good point earlier that 2009 may have had a small applicant surge due to going from 50+ zones to 7 that year.


Relieved, hmm a bit. Hunter numbers still going down - undeniably even according to your calculation. We should all try to figure out the causes. I do not have all the answers.
Over the last couple of months I have sent emails to various DNR folks including Scott inquiring about the history of actual turkey license sales not tag or number of permit sales. I am trying to determine the real number of individual hunters. No response has been forth coming, perhaps you have better connections and could inquire.

Most of your concern with "my facts" would be better taken up with the reporters from various state news outlets, press releases from various organizations, Senators, Represenatives and the concerned government agencies.
One has great difficulty determining what is going on with any particular issue. Here is some of where I go:
The Wheeler Report - lists and links to press releases plus a variety of state newspapers. (this is where information was disclosed about an email exchange between Scott Hull and the bill writers which I previously referenced)

Wisconsin Outdoor News web site. http://wisconsinoutdoornews.com/article ... news01.txt
"Hull said the DNR surveyed 10,000 spring and 10,000 fall turkey hunters last year, and 85 percent were satisfied or very satisfied with their hunting experience.
Hamilton said he kept the DNR in the loop via e-mail. "I'm sick and tired of everyone saying we hate the DNR and hate the (Conservation) Congress," Hamilton said. "And I get really disappointed when I hear people say we don't work with the DNR. We donate thousands of dollars to Archery in Schools, hunter education and Learn-to-Hunt programs. Biologists sign off on every dollar we spend, and we have a great relationship with DNR wardens."


Journal Sentinal outdoor section
LaCrosse Trib outdoors

Clarifications:
WDNR does not support nor do they oppose this bill.

Scott Hull was consulted about its affect from a biological standpoint. According to reports he had no problem with it from that point of veiw.

charlie elk is not "married" to this particular bill; thinks some season changes are in order which is why this discussion interests me. I am not involved with any group, do not personally have any "inside information" nor do I personally know anyone written about in the press who is pro or con.
later,
charlie
If you agree with me call it fact; if you disagree - call it my opinion.
After all - we are talking turkey.

tpedretti
 
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RE: Turkey Season Will Change if Senate Bill Passes

Postby tpedretti » March 6th, 2010, 4:41 am

I really dont believe this will increase the number of Hunters. Maybe at first but then when Hunters cant get permission to Hunt when they wanna Hunt then they wont Hunt again.
Anyone who is for this just simply wants to be able to hunt when they want to. The reality is that wont happen with this especially the first 2 weeks and weekends. Hunter pressure will be extreme.
I have exchanged emails with Scott Hull and he is clearly against this bill.
As I have said before this bill needs to be stopped because we have a great resource here in Wi and it is that awesome because it has been managed very carefully and that needs to continue to retain the quality HUnts we have and the safe Hunts we have and to continue to keep the awesome resource we have.
Vote NO to SB481 so we keep properly managing the Turkey Flock and the HUnters.

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WillowRidgeCalls
 
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RE: Turkey Season Will Change if Senate Bill Passes

Postby WillowRidgeCalls » March 6th, 2010, 7:50 am

I'm still sitting on the fence about this bill, but I'm leaning more towords the NO side the more I think about it. It does have a couple of good things about it, but the bad things outway the good. I like the fact that it would open up the whole state, and give you more time to hunt. The bad part is that it would be a nightmare on public land and it would make getting permission to hunt private land even harder then it already is. A farmer will let a guy or couple on his land to hunt the week of their season, so in the 6 weeks he only has 6-12 people hunting his land but only two on it at a time. With this bill not having short seasons it would mean that all would want to be there at one time, and that becomes a safty issue and it would ruin the chance you have to take a bird off it if it was a smaller farm. If it becomes a safty issue then that'll be the end of hunting it, or if they have family members hunting it you won't get on it. This bill will take a lot of private land away from hunters and force you to hunt the already over crowded public land. If a hunter has to put up with fighting for a spot to hunt some are going to give it up and it will cost us more hunter not hunting.
WillowRidgeCalls
WI Youth & LTH Mentor
Dodge Co. NWTF
Scott

charlie elk
 
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RE: Turkey Season Will Change if Senate Bill Passes

Postby charlie elk » March 9th, 2010, 5:52 pm

tpedretti I have enjoyed reading your posts and others.  I see you have been posting on other sites around the state.  Nice to have a fellow concerned hunter in our ranks even if we are not seeing exactly eye to eye[:-]

A common argument thread against a change like the one proposed would be the "large increase in hunters on the opener" or "it would become like the gun deer season"  (not quoting you just generalizing many comments I've seen)
Gun deer season fields 688,000 hunters while bow deer season fields 259,000.  Spring turkey fields about 140,000 hunters.  How can 140,000 dare I say better behaved hunters cause the same pressure as gun deer or even bow deer season?
Unless by removing the DNR's micro management of turkeys and their hunters would in fact increase the number of turkey hunters.

BTW putt, according to DNR 2010 figures;
 138,361 hunters were drawn this year compared to 154,505 drawn in 2009.  A decrease of 16,144 a 10% loss of turkey hunters applying in the drawing. This decrease is very alarming and does not bode well for the future of turkey hunting. 

 
later,
charlie
If you agree with me call it fact; if you disagree - call it my opinion.
After all - we are talking turkey.

putt
 
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RE: Turkey Season Will Change if Senate Bill Passes

Postby putt » March 13th, 2010, 6:19 am

Good to see that there's some action on this thread again.  This is an important subject.

"Fan Club" ... good comments on late season hunting.


"tpedretti" ... the end of your recent post said "Vote NO to SB481".  I wish we could, but turkey hunters seem to have no input or vote on this bill.  That's my biggest concern.
 

Charlie ... Thanks  for the hunter permit draw number update.  Please give me a link to where you got the DNR info.  I can't find the 138,361 number you referred to, & I'd like to take a look at what all info is on that website or article.
 

But I'm not about to use a one year dip in 1st draw permits as a sky-is-falling reason to justify such dramatic permit rule changes.  This Bill eliminates all time periods, all zones, all landowner & Wis resident preference in one swoop (I'm not a landowner).  Changes this dramatic require the well discussed input of all concerned turkey hunters.  Before the Bill is written, not as an afterthought.  The current turkey permit rules came about through a many years of people & groups working together.  This Bill appears to me to have come out of nowhere as a result of a small group working directly with state legislatures and bypassing the normal system.
 

To you Wisconsin members of the NWTF
:  How & when did you first hear about this Bill?  Was it through your NWTF local chapter asking for input?  Did you have input? Or did you read about it in the press after the Bill was already written?  It was introduced as a Bill Jan 25 this year.  I first heard about it in a Feb 8 sports page article. 
 

If anyone is interested in some more hunter views on this subject, the Wis bowhunters have an active discussion going:  http://forums.bowsite.com/tf/regional/thread.cfm?threadid=177942&MESSAGES=69&state=WI#1820529  

And here's a Milw Journal article on the Bill that has several good hunter comments at the end:
http://www.jsonline.com/sports/outdoors/83504432.html  

And finally here's where you can track the Bill's history & progress.  Interesting to note that two senators have withdrawn sponsorship, including one of the Bill coauthors:
http://www.legis.state.wi.us/2009/data/SB481hst.html

charlie elk
 
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RE: Turkey Season Will Change if Senate Bill Passes

Postby charlie elk » March 13th, 2010, 3:17 pm

Please give me a link to where you got the DNR info. I can't find the 138,361 number you referred to,

I used your link from your post.
Took the number of leftover tags in each year subtracted from total available permits.
I am not saying the sky is falling that would be silly.  Dropping hunter numbers could indicate the beginning of a bad trend. If so not good for the long term future of WI turkey hunting.

The current scheme reminds me of an old saying "a moose is a horse designed by a committee" 
Turkeys get Mondays and Tuesdays off. - Why?
Hunters are micro managed and forced into 5 day sprints. Rather than having time to pick a bird and trophy hunt em like they do in so many other states. 

Oh well this is a fun discussion.  Not to worry in the end the current scheme will not change like everything else in this state it will talked and argued to death.  Image

In the meantime charlie elk will  buy many extra tags and sprint his way to filling them all. Or at least as many as he can.[:D]  If the current trend continues there will be more and more tags each year.[:-]
later,
charlie
If you agree with me call it fact; if you disagree - call it my opinion.
After all - we are talking turkey.

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joeturkey
 
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RE: Turkey Season Will Change if Senate Bill Passes

Postby joeturkey » March 14th, 2010, 9:23 pm

I,ve read all the posts on this issue and there are many fine comments and observations about the status  of our great turkey hunting in wisconsin. It is hard to argue for changes when we have it so good already! The DNR has done a fantastic job with turkey hunting here and i just love it and also thank them and give just praise. That being said there is always some room for improvement. We have lived with the zone season structure for many years and it has worked to get our turkey numbers up to where they are now! I do think a couple of the proposed changes make sense though.The idea to change to 3 seasons instead of 6 is very reasonable, eliminate the 5 day rule. I don't think we should make it wide open yet because we are still getting used to the recent changes in the # of zones! I think we need a couple more years to see how these changes are going to affect the hunt. I mainly hunt in zone 1 but have and will hunt anywhere i can get tags for. It does seem that zone 2 has an abundance of turkeys and more tags need to be given out to hunt there! Just putting in my 2 cents worth. GOOD LUCK HUNTING THIS YEAR!!

charlie elk
 
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RE: Turkey Season Will Change if Senate Bill Passes

Postby charlie elk » March 16th, 2010, 1:16 pm

Good post joeturkey, I could live with your proposal. Actually I could live with a lot different of the different ideas floating around.
Another example;
Keep the zones as is, start with a 2 week archery only, open a shotgun season May 1 for 4 weeks with different limits in different zones. The drawing scrapped all tags OTC.
later,
charlie
If you agree with me call it fact; if you disagree - call it my opinion.
After all - we are talking turkey.

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