Turkey Season Will Change if Senate Bill Passes

tpedretti
 
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RE: Turkey Season Will Change if Senate Bill Passes

Postby tpedretti » February 28th, 2010, 11:20 am

The understanding I have is a person can buy extra tags, as many as you want until there gone. IM gonna have to read it again.
10 new Hunters wont Hunt the 2nd year when the 1st year they couldnt have a quality Hunt because of Hunter pressure.
I think anyone for this is thinking of the convenience to Hunt anytime over preserving the resource and safety and a quality Hunt.
I guarantee you April will be crazy with Hunters.

putt
 
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RE: Turkey Season Will Change if Senate Bill Passes

Postby putt » February 28th, 2010, 3:52 pm

Charlie Elk,

I'm a new poster to this forum, and a relatively new turkey hunter compared to yourself. It sounds from your posts like you have done a good deal for the sport through the years, and for that I thank you since I come to the sport relatively late in life. I do love turkey hunting, and my initial reaction to the dramatic changes proposed by SB481 is "way too much, too quickly". But I am trying to learn all I can about the Bill, especially why there seems to be such a rush and what was the driving factor behind it?

When news of this Bill came out in the press I emailed both the DNR & the Wis Conservation Congress to ask if they had input to the Bill. My DNR email was forwarded internally to Scott Hull, the guy that you referred to in your recent post. Mr. Hull replied to me.

Charlie, I do need to ask about a few of the facts and opinions that you've brought up in your posts on this forum.

One fact that you used when initiating this discussion is that the Wis initial turkey permit applications dropped from ~170,000 in 2009 to 149,000 this year. You used the 21,000 drop as a cause of concern about our future turkey ranks, and a possible good reason for this Bill. On a recent post you again referred to this drop as an "undeniable fact". Well, you should be relieved to hear that the actual numbers are much better.

The Journal article you read must have used preliminary numbers. The actual Final 2010 Spring number, posted on the DNR website is 162,679 first choice applicants, not 149,000.
http://dnr.wi.gov/org/land/wildlife/hun ... spring.pdf

The 2009 number of initial applicants was 169,765, a drop of 7086 (only 4%) to 2010. Not 21,000. "Treerooster" made a good point earlier that 2009 may have had a small applicant surge due to going from 50+ zones to 7 that year.

Along with his email reply to me Mr. Hull of the DNR sent along a copy of both last year's poll results & the poll itself. You write in your Feb 26 post that you were a part of the poll last year and it did NOT ask you if you were satisfied with the current season structure. Well, the 2009 Poll's Question #3 reads: "Wisconsin's current turkey hunting season framework (6, 5-day time periods, 7 zones, a limited draw for first permits, and over-the-counter sale of unissued permits) is intended to provide a quality hunting experience by spreading out hunter density and demand across time periods and zones. How satisfied were you with the current season framework?"

The results to that question from 4000+ turkey hunters who responded to the poll were 31.7% Very Satisfied, 24.2% Somewhat Satisfied, 29.5% Satisfied, 10.7% Somewhat Dissatisfied, 4.0% Very Dissatisfied.

Seems pretty clear to me that the Spring 2009 poll DID ask, and that most of these 4000+ hunters are satisfied with the current regulations. I did find that the DNR posted the earlier 2007 and 2008 Spring polls on their webite at http://www.dnr.state.wi.us/org/land/wil ... arvest.htm Neither of these earlier polls specifically referred to hunter satisfaction with the season structure. Although I'm not a pollster, after reading the polls in my opinion the poll questions do a good job of trying to get hunter input & experiences, & are not just a "DNR feel good poll".

If you or anyone else would like to see the complete 2009 poll and results before they're posted on the website, I expect that Mr. Hull would send you a copy. His email is Scott.Hull@wisconsin.gov

Finally, in his email response to me Mr. Hull wrote "I can emphatically tell you that the DNR was not involved in the development of this bill nor were we consulted." Charlie, you posted that contrary to what Mr. Hull said, that "... he was consulted and asked for input every step of the way by the state NWTF who helped write it and the Senators". Exactly where. please, did you get that information that the DNR was consulted every step of the way?

The email response to me from the Wis Conservation Congress can be the subject for a another post. This one's long enough.

For anyone interested in another point of view from a long-time sportswriter, here's an interesting article by Patrick Durkin titled "Spring turkey hunt -- why mess with good thing?:
http://host.madison.com/sports/recreati ... 03286.html

Hognutz
 
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RE: Turkey Season Will Change if Senate Bill Passes

Postby Hognutz » February 28th, 2010, 4:34 pm

I actually welcome an over the counter license versus the lottery, and doing away with the boundaries. With the system that we have now, it is virtually impossible to get the period you want, and if you hunt with a couple of buddies or kids, to all get the same zones and times. This system works anywhere else that has it, should work here. I hunt Mi. every year as a non-resident. No problem getting a license, no problem getting to hunt for 4 or 5 weeks. A 5 day season is to short to begin with. If you work, and most do, or if the kids are in school, and most are, you need to take off 3 days to hunt. If not you have a 2 day hunt. Factor in a little rain, snow or wind, and you have a miserable hunt and you are done. Because of the system, I hunt Mi. every year, because you are pretty much quaranteed a license and a month to hunt. That's 4 or 5 weekends. If the weather is bad, go next weekend. No big deal. I then hunt Wi. secondary. Did not get a tag last year, so this year I had preference. This year I will hunt both states. I know everyone has an opinion, this is mine.

tpedretti
 
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RE: Turkey Season Will Change if Senate Bill Passes

Postby tpedretti » February 28th, 2010, 5:20 pm

great job putt.
Hognutz you most likely put in for the 1st season and are not getting it. Well good luck finding a place to Hunt with this free for all open season thing because everyone is gonna wanna Hunt those 1st two weeks.
I still stick to my fealing that anyone for this is for the convenience of being able to Hunt when they want vs a quality Hunt and safety and preserving the resource.
Thats my 2 cents.

Montezumasdaddy
 
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RE: Turkey Season Will Change if Senate Bill Passes

Postby Montezumasdaddy » February 28th, 2010, 6:39 pm

I really don't like this at all and here is why. I live in Northern Wisconsin where we don't have birds all over the place like the rest of the state. In areas there are good numbers of birds and in other areas there are no birds for many, many miles. I hunt both public and private land but almost all of the private land I hunt is hunted by many other hunters because the land owners let anyone hunt, as long as you ask and obey their rules. Right now with the season broken into 6 seasons I compete with other huters hunting the same property and same seasons just because you can't go just anywhere and find birds. I can't imagine what it would be like with up to 6 times the hunters out there for the first couple of weeks. No matter how it works in other states or how it may work in other areas of our state I know it will be a bad thing for turkey hunting in my area. I really hope this doesn't go through.

tpedretti
 
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RE: Turkey Season Will Change if Senate Bill Passes

Postby tpedretti » March 1st, 2010, 2:13 am

Montezeumasdaddy,
you then need to email the right people and tell them your against this. Go to the WI NWTF website and you can find out who to email. its your senator and representative and the WI NWTF board.
Thank YOu and Happy HUnting

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RE: Turkey Season Will Change if Senate Bill Passes

Postby Fan Club » March 1st, 2010, 3:37 am

> I hunt Mi. every year, because you are pretty much quaranteed a license and a month to hunt. <
 
> I live in Northern Wisconsin where we don't have birds all over the place like the rest of the state. <
 
Actually Michigan has a "hybrid" system of both lottery and over the counter guaranteed hunts that enables the DNR to manage for both turkey population and hunter numbers.  It seems to work well.
 
The state is divided into 12 zones and the first two hunts are 7 day lottery tags with approx 1500-2000 tags drawn per zone. The lottery hunts are 4/19 - 4/25 and 4/26 - 5/2. The general or "guaranteed" hunt that Hognutz mentioned is 5/3-5/31 but is only for the 6 zones that comprise the bottom half of the lower peninsula (where most of the turkeys are) and is for private land only.
 
Like Wisconsin, in the northern reaches of Michigan there are not as many turkeys so those hunters get one of two 7 day shots at them. There is a statewide one gobbler limit so this ensures that they are not overhunted up north. Having the "guaranteed" hunt on only private land prevents swarms of hunters from all showing up on public ground on May 3 rd. To hunt public ground anywhere in the state you must apply for one of the two lottery hunts. There isn't much public ground in southern Michigan anyway, the bulk of it is all up north and thus controlled by the lottery.
 
As for the situation in Wisconsin I'm with the majority of you, it sounds like the proposed changes are too drastic. A six week open season everywhere is going to cause some problems, especially on public land, and I would look for accident/incident rates to rise. Under the current structure, I likewise agree that 5 day tags are too short and that is probably why there is an overabundance of turkeys there. My guess is that their Shooting Permit /Hunter Access program is one big expensive, administrative headache and they just want to open up the season to get the turkey population back in check. Even though you folks are concerned with quality of hunt and convenience issues, having too many turkeys is actually a good problem to have.
 
I hope you all can reach some middle ground and have a great spring season!
 
"The joy of living is his, who has the heart to demand it." Teddy Roosevelt

Hognutz
 
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RE: Turkey Season Will Change if Senate Bill Passes

Postby Hognutz » March 1st, 2010, 4:56 am

In Wi. I hunt the extreme N.E. part of the state. Yes, I do apply for 1st and 2nd season only, because when I applied for all time periods, I ALWAYS got 4th, 5th, or 6th. And I mean always. I personally would rather skip one year, and then get the season I wanted, and was able to hunt, not the one that was left over. I do hunt private land, so I realize that this would affect me less than those who don't. I understand your worry. Hopefully they can find some middle ground and make this a better deal for eveyone. I equate this to deer season. 750,000 hit the woods at once. No split seasons or zones. It works. It may not be as bad as one assumes. Hopefully, middle ground will be reached..Mike
And there I was...Knee deep in grenade pins..

putt
 
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RE: Turkey Season Will Change if Senate Bill Passes

Postby putt » March 1st, 2010, 2:42 pm

Hognutz. Don't sell the later time periods short. I hunt in crowded Zone 2 & last year I was bummed to draw the 5th period. I also later picked up a 6th period zone 2 in the 2nd draw.

Turned out to be two of the best turkey hunts I've had. I had to get both toms to jump over old stone farm fences into the woods where I was because I didn't have permission to shoot into the fields, but they came and they were beautiful birds.

This year I again drew the 5th period & again will try for the 6th in the 2nd draw. And because Wisconsin seems to be so turkey-rich in the Southwest Zone 1 area, I hope to get a permit down there & hunt there for the first time. There's 2nd permits left in the 3rd thru 6th periods in Zone 1. Only a few hundred in the 3rd, but 9,000-11,000 in the other periods.

That's one of the good things about the present system. It can allot extra permits in areas where turkeys are more abundant.

Good luck with your kids. And believe it when people say they grow up too fast.

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RE: Turkey Season Will Change if Senate Bill Passes

Postby Fan Club » March 2nd, 2010, 3:57 am

ORIGINAL: putt

Hognutz. Don't sell the later time periods short... last year I was bummed to draw the 5th period.

Turned out to be two of the best turkey hunts I've had.



You got that right Putt. I've taken dozens of gobblers over 17 seasons in Missouri, Michigan and South Dakota. Out of all those birds, my two best toms were both taken right here in Michigan on Memorial Day, May 31 st, the last day of the season. I had a chat with Rob Keck, former head of the NWTF, about it and he summed it up best-

"I believe your absolute best chance to tag a true boss gobbler is at the end of the season if you can hang on to your tag that long. Two weeks ago that turkey would have been henned up and you would have put your tag on a subordinate bird."

Another bonus of the late season is that most of the hens are nesting and you are more likely to get a gobbler to investigate your calling. Please don't think I'm a trophy hunting turkey snob, I'm not. Just merely agreeing with Putt and pointing out some late season advantages from my experience. Thanks for letting me crash your WI forum boys, some good folks here.



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"The joy of living is his, who has the heart to demand it." Teddy Roosevelt

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