The S-word?

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RE: The S-word?

Postby Fan Club » March 16th, 2009, 6:01 pm

> To me the full strut decoys pose a major safety hazard to a hunter, but I have never hunted behind one nor do I plan on hunting with one so I wouldn't know for sure. <
 
I would not use a strutter in a rifle state or on public land. Then again, any type of decoy is dangerous where rifles are legal or on public land. Other than that, a little common sense goes a long way, as Ben noted.

With a strut decoy, recommended placement is where it can be seen for long distances... by other turkeys, and for safety. Placed on a field edge, the hunter can see anything approach from across the field. If he is safely set up with a tree at his back, his rear approach is covered if someone should try and shoot at his decoy from behind. In open hardwoods, the hunter can see well beyond his deke for anything approaching...likewise his backside is covered if properly setup.

Where trouble is invited is when a hunter employs the "I want the turkey to be in gun range as soon as I see him" philosophy. This drastically shortens reflex and target identification time. Without any scientific data, it's probably a safe assumption that a good percentage of hunting accidents happen in this manner. This would be an especially poor, if not stupid, setup to use a strut deke for. If another hunter is closing in on turkey sounds, which may be you, and you can't see what's approaching....well, that's a dangerous situation with or without dekes.

Gobbler dekes are fairly new so it will take years to reveal if they are inherantly more dangerous than any other decoy. In the meantime, hunters without common sense are what you have to watch out for. Unforunately, common sense is what is noticeably absent when a hunter pulls the trigger without positively identifying his target.
 
Common sense....hmmmm, is there a pattern here?
 
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RE: The S-word?

Postby grizzly » March 16th, 2009, 10:51 pm

hi guys i was'nt going to post on this cause it ussully gets ugly but i feel i must as i stated many times be fore if you hunt to what the game laws say i've have no problem with the way you hunt that being said i have done a little research on my home state of n.y and found this starting with 2000 to 2007 we had an average of 1.7 accidents last year we had 5 of those when reading thats facts on each case 2 were hunters shooting at full strut decoys 2 were shooting at movement 1 was a fight over who was hunting where i'm not blaming the decoy but the one case i read has all the making of every thing we're talking about here the hunter who did the shooting says he heard a turkey gooble he went looking for it as he crawled over the top of trhe knoll he saw a tom he shot... here are the facts he was hunting on posted land  he shot at a decoy that was 75 yards away he didnt see the hunter who was behind that decoy another 20 yards thankfully the hunter only had minor injuerys the poacher when arrestted was conplaning say it wasnt his fault it was the decoys agin i say hunters if it legal i have no problem .friends just stay safe and watch out

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RE: The S-word?

Postby Fan Club » March 17th, 2009, 3:14 am

ORIGINAL: grizzly

... the hunter who did the shooting says he heard a turkey gooble he went looking for it as he crawled over the top of the knoll he saw a tom, he shot... here are the facts- he was hunting on posted land, he shot at a decoy that was 75 yards away, he didnt see the hunter who was behind that decoy another 20 yards thankfully the hunter only had minor injurys.

 
Well, there you go. You've got a guy tresspassing and stalking turkey sounds. He took an unethical 75 yard shot which didn't allow him to be close enough to positively identify his target as a real turkey. The victim did his part by employing the decoy behind a burm where he couldn't see anything or anyone approaching for an adequate distance (beyond shotgun range). Anyone could have someone sneak up on them from behind, that's one of the reasons turkey hunters have been sitting at the base of wide trees since the inception of the sport. To allow someone to sneak into your position from the front indicates a lack of judgement in choosing a setup.
 
When a hunting accident occurs, ultimately the shooter must be held responsible for pulling the trigger. With all due respect to those who have been innocently injured, we must also take a good hard look at the role the victim played in the incident or the position he put himself into and try and learn from both.
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RE: The S-word?

Postby tracebusta32 » March 17th, 2009, 4:09 am

One more thing I saw when I was looking up the stats was that most of these accidents occur on private land, not the public...
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RE: The S-word?

Postby Fan Club » March 17th, 2009, 5:04 am

ORIGINAL: tracebusta32

One more thing I saw when I was looking up the stats was that most of these accidents occur on private land, not the public...

 
Well, they say that numbers don't lie but that is hard to believe given the sheer number of hunters and their proximity to each other on any given public land.
 
That would seem to indicate a couple of possible factors. First, maybe responsible private land hunters have a more relaxed attitude about safety and lack the vigilence required for public land hunting. Second, possibly a propensity for lawbreakers to think they are less apt to get caught breaking or stretching the rules on private land.
 
Excellent civil discussion with a lot of valid points to consider!
 
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RE: The S-word?

Postby JPH » March 17th, 2009, 5:20 am

I think the reason is a little simpler. There are far more hunters doing their thing on private property than on public. Yes, hunter desity is often higher on public land, but when you look at the overall distribution of hunting land and hunters, public hunting is in the minority.
 

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RE: The S-word?

Postby Fan Club » March 17th, 2009, 5:41 am

ORIGINAL: JPH

I think the reason is a little simpler. There are far more hunters doing their thing on private property than on public. Yes, hunter density is often higher on public land, but when you look at the overall distribution of hunting land and hunters, public hunting is in the minority.


 
Excellent observation JPH. All of the possible factors being explored assume that the parts A) Private and B) Public are equal. Of course that is not the case. As with a lot of hunting situations/discussions, there are so many variables involved that merely trying to break down the statistics mathematically isn't always appropriate.
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RE: The S-word?

Postby tracebusta32 » March 17th, 2009, 6:42 am

That was the exact point they made, private land hunters are more relaxed feeling as though they are the only ones there. You have trespassers and sometimes the landowner lets more hunters on the land without you knowing about it.
 
 
ORIGINAL: Fan Club

ORIGINAL: tracebusta32

One more thing I saw when I was looking up the stats was that most of these accidents occur on private land, not the public...


Well, they say that numbers don't lie but that is hard to believe given the sheer number of hunters and their proximity to each other on any given public land.

That would seem to indicate a couple of possible factors. First, maybe responsible private land hunters have a more relaxed attitude about safety and lack the vigilence required for public land hunting. Second, possibly a propensity for lawbreakers to think they are less apt to get caught breaking or stretching the rules on private land.

Excellent civil discussion with a lot of valid points to consider!

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RE: The S-word?

Postby swpatrkyhunter » March 17th, 2009, 9:35 am

Alot of good points on this post. Makes you think. As for the public versus private land thing. I think sometimes hunters on private land tend to get a false sense of security. With more people aquiring land to hunt on the more people you have who will trespass on those properties. If someone has no problem with trespasing then they probably will show disregard for safety as well. When hunting on public land you tend to watch out for other hunters more. No matter where your hunting, public or private land, you should ALWAYS have safety in mind. Cause you never know who might be out there with you and what kind of hunter they are.
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RE: The S-word?

Postby mark hay » March 17th, 2009, 12:06 pm

can't speak for the rest of the country, since i only hunt in ohio , but the public land where i hunt is not crawling with hunters . i've noticed that most turkey hunters in the buckeye state are a lazy bunch,,,not all ,,,but most. many will be content to aquire permission on a piece of ground and barely get out of sight of the truck when they go hunting . 11 seasons and noone shot that i know of on this place. 3 or 4 years back some bonehead was mushroom hunting on private property , wearing a white sweatshirt , before noon, which is unloading time for turkey hunters , and had the misfortune of meeting up with another bonehead that didn't identify his target ,,,and he shot the shroom hunter. no excuse for either party involved there .
there is always a risk when the woods or fields are being trod by folks carrying guns , no matter what they are pursuing.
i've had one too close encounter deer hunting ,,,,and too many to recall while rabbit hunting. but to my knowledge i've never had a close call in the turkey woods.
but ones mind can cause problems . rob keck told the story , i'll repeat it .
you are driving down the road in the middle of the day . long striaght stretch of road . way up ahead you spot something lying in the road . a little closer and you can tell that it is black,,,,,closer yet and there is a spot of white. still not 100% sure of what it is , most folks would say ''oh , it's a skunk '' . then you pass it and see it's a piece of a tire with some whitewall showing.
i think of that story a lot. and just last fall while sitting in a treestand and thinking about deer ,,,and watching a well used trail ,,,where i had been seeing lots of deer ,,,,something moves back down the trail about 50 yards . i clearly recall thinking ''what the ? ,,,black deer? 4 longbeards !!
keck also pointed out that most turkey hunting accidents involve a seasoned hunter, which was also the shooter. i do not know if his statement is true , and that was said many years ago ,,,,,,,,,BUT IT IS FOOD FOR THOUGHT , DON'T YA THINK ?

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