Winchester ammo comparison

Guns, ammo, and more! What do you shoot, and why?
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dewey
 
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Re: Winchester ammo comparison

Postby dewey » February 26th, 2014, 1:55 pm

icdedturkes wrote:Or you could just pony up for a Lucky Weasel pattern analyzer which will give you your true turkey factor based on how many ways a turkey head can fit in a 15 inch circle. :D

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fdrtub40MFE


That is pretty cool but in the same respects completely overboard.

I would like to nominate kygobbler to buy this and then we all send our guns to him for testing. Free of charge of course.

Dewey
"Strength does not come from physical capacity. It comes from an indomitable will." --Mahatma Gandhi

"Never confuse a single defeat with a final defeat."--F. Scott Fitzgerald, American writer

       

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Treerooster
 
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Re: Winchester ammo comparison

Postby Treerooster » February 26th, 2014, 1:56 pm

And here I thought I was being scientific with my pencil & string. :D
As far as this turkey thing......I know enough...to know enough...that I don't know enough

icdedturkes
 
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Re: Winchester ammo comparison

Postby icdedturkes » February 26th, 2014, 3:20 pm

dewey wrote:
icdedturkes wrote:Or you could just pony up for a Lucky Weasel pattern analyzer which will give you your true turkey factor based on how many ways a turkey head can fit in a 15 inch circle. :D

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fdrtub40MFE


That is pretty cool but in the same respects completely overboard.

I would like to nominate kygobbler to buy this and then we all send our guns to him for testing. Free of charge of course.

Dewey


Its what Rob Roberts Custom Gun Works uses for pattern analysis.. I saw an article on them when they were invented and do not quote but I believe somewhere around 25000... With Robs business and contract with Benelli it has probably payed for itself and expedited the process.. I believe its also used for competitive clay shooters. .

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dewey
 
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Re: Winchester ammo comparison

Postby dewey » February 26th, 2014, 4:14 pm

Treerooster wrote:And here I thought I was being scientific with my pencil & string. :D


I believe that is called "Turkey woods science" at its best:D

Dewey
"Strength does not come from physical capacity. It comes from an indomitable will." --Mahatma Gandhi

"Never confuse a single defeat with a final defeat."--F. Scott Fitzgerald, American writer

       

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kygobbler
 
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Re: Winchester ammo comparison

Postby kygobbler » February 26th, 2014, 5:43 pm

dewey wrote:
icdedturkes wrote:Or you could just pony up for a Lucky Weasel pattern analyzer which will give you your true turkey factor based on how many ways a turkey head can fit in a 15 inch circle. :D

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fdrtub40MFE


That is pretty cool but in the same respects completely overboard.

I would like to nominate kygobbler to buy this and then we all send our guns to him for testing. Free of charge of course.

Dewey


Too bad Im at work right now and can't get on youtube to see what it is. Now as far as ya sending your guns to me to test out no problem whatsoever. I tell you what, for the first 10 guns sent to me to be tested I will send you this ACME gun. That way you will not be without a gun during turkey season or any other season while Im testing the calibrations, vibrations, harmonics, recoil, and everything else on your gun.

Well Im having techinal difficulty posting the ACME gun on here. So that tells you that this gun is so leathal that is still in the Top Secret section. :roll: :lol:
Is it turkey season yet?

air leak
 
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Re: Winchester ammo comparison

Postby air leak » February 27th, 2014, 6:15 pm

dewey wrote:Those are some very impressive patterns at 40 yards. For those of you out there with more experience how do you determine your maximum range?

Number of pellets in 3" circle?
Number of pellets in 10" circle?
Energy and pellets and X yards?

Thanks for posting the results Bryan. I am looking forward to shooting these over Easter weekend.

Dewey


With all due respect, this isn't that complicated. A tight pattern at 40 yards will kill turkeys.

My sons and I have used one load for the last 11 seasons, Remington Magnum Turkey Loads, 12 ga, 3 inch, 2 oz of # 4 Copperplated shot. I have killed birds out to 45 yards, real dead, real fast.

I can assure you that every bird we killed, couldn't care less about how many pellets are in a 10 inch circle.

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dewey
 
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Re: Winchester ammo comparison

Postby dewey » February 27th, 2014, 9:59 pm

air leak wrote:
dewey wrote:Those are some very impressive patterns at 40 yards. For those of you out there with more experience how do you determine your maximum range?

Number of pellets in 3" circle?
Number of pellets in 10" circle?
Energy and pellets and X yards?

Thanks for posting the results Bryan. I am looking forward to shooting these over Easter weekend.

Dewey


With all due respect, this isn't that complicated. A tight pattern at 40 yards will kill turkeys.

My sons and I have used one load for the last 11 seasons, Remington Magnum Turkey Loads, 12 ga, 3 inch, 2 oz of # 4 Copperplated shot. I have killed birds out to 45 yards, real dead, real fast.

I can assure you that every bird we killed, couldn't care less about how many pellets are in a 10 inch circle.


I understand what you are trying to say but what constitutes a 'tight pattern'? That is part of what I am trying to determine and thus my questions above.

Dewey
"Strength does not come from physical capacity. It comes from an indomitable will." --Mahatma Gandhi

"Never confuse a single defeat with a final defeat."--F. Scott Fitzgerald, American writer

       

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Treerooster
 
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Re: Winchester ammo comparison

Postby Treerooster » February 28th, 2014, 10:28 am

There are two basic performance parameters I’ll be concentrating on to evaluate the loads on their effectiveness. One is sufficient pattern density -- enough pellets in the pattern, at a given range, to ensure multiple hits on the target’s vital areas. For turkeys, the load will have to place a minimum of 210-230 pellets in a 30-inch diameter pattern with three to four skull and/or cervical vertebrae (S/CV) hits on a turkey head-and-neck target to be deemed effective. The other is ample pellet energy -- enough per-pellet energy to reliably penetrate the target’s vital areas at a given range. To ensure the pellets retain ample per-pellet turkey-S/CV-penetrating energy the pellets must not be used beyond their maximum effective ranges. My analysis of the maximum effective ranges for pellets comprised of different metal types is:


35 yards -- No. 6 lead shot;
45 yards -- No. 6 tungsten-composite shot (min. 12 g/cc), No. 5 lead shot or No. 4 steel shot;
55 yards -- No. 5 tungsten-composite shot (min. 12 g/cc), No. 4 lead shot or No. 3 steel shot.

Some may say that these maximum effective ranges are too stringent, but as previously mentioned, turkeys are big tough birds so let’s error on the safe side when it comes to pellet energy.



I read your excerpt Dewey and I don't buy what the guy is saying.

First off I think his patterns are too thin. He states 210 to 230 hits in a 30 inch circle. 100 hits in a 10 inch circle is a common accepted min kill density for turkey. That's 100 hits in an area that is about 78 sq inches. More than 1 hit per sq inch. A 30 inch circle has 706 sq inches. 220 hits is less than 1 hit every 2 sq inches. A little too thin for my taste and NOT "on the safe side". IMO 220 hits in a 30 inch circle is just too thin of a pattern to consistently kill turkeys.

As for his stance on pellet energy, now I think he is too much "on the safe side". There is being on the safe side and then there is being realistic. Lead 6's in my experience, and many others, will kill turkeys out to 50 yards IF you have the proper pattern density. I believe I am being conservative when I shoot lead 6's at 40 yards with a 5 yard cushion and a proper pattern density.

I came across this post this morning on another forum. It talks about lead 6's and their lethality. There is a little BS in there, but I think you can see that others have had good experience killing turkeys with lead 6's at reasonable ranges.

http://gobblernation.com/phpBB3/viewtop ... df41edf838
As far as this turkey thing......I know enough...to know enough...that I don't know enough

air leak
 
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Re: Winchester ammo comparison

Postby air leak » February 28th, 2014, 6:15 pm

Here is how I look at it….

A sledgehammer….# 4 shot.

A claw hammer…..# 6 shot.

A dead turkey doesn't care how many pellets are in a 10 inch circle, @ 40 yards.

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