Weapon Concealment ?

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dewey
 
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Re: Weapon Concealment ?

Postby dewey » December 11th, 2013, 4:46 pm

charlie elk wrote:Camo is very important for hunting turkeys. For both safety and success.
Safety- Any small part of a hunter not camouflaged, like a hand or part of a face could be mistaken by another unknown and unseen hunter thinking they see the head of a turkey moving. A longtime hunting buddy of mine was shot this spring while in his Sheriff uniform because the shooter looking through brush thought the patches on his uniform as they moved along a trail were a turkey. He took 56 pellets and is lucky to be alive.
Regarding the gun- you certainly can kill a turkey with an uncamouflaged gun. However, safety dictates it should be camo for the reason above. Sun could play tricks on shiny/reflective wood, plastic and metal giving another hunter the impression of turkey movement.
All the other comments about movement are on the mark; a camo gun makes all those movements easier and less detectible. Flat earth tone paints are cheap and any gun can be painted.


Here is a thread talking about Charlie's friend that got shot this spring in MN.

viewtopic.php?f=62&t=18851

How is your friend doing Charlie?

Dewey
"Strength does not come from physical capacity. It comes from an indomitable will." --Mahatma Gandhi

"Never confuse a single defeat with a final defeat."--F. Scott Fitzgerald, American writer

       

timbrhuntr
 
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Re: Weapon Concealment ?

Postby timbrhuntr » December 11th, 2013, 6:11 pm

charlie elk wrote:Camo is very important for hunting turkeys. For both safety and success.
Safety- Any small part of a hunter not camouflaged, like a hand or part of a face could be mistaken by another unknown and unseen hunter thinking they see the head of a turkey moving. A longtime hunting buddy of mine was shot this spring while in his Sheriff uniform because the shooter looking through brush thought the patches on his uniform as they moved along a trail were a turkey. He took 56 pellets and is lucky to be alive.
Regarding the gun- you certainly can kill a turkey with an uncamouflaged gun. However, safety dictates it should be camo for the reason above. Sun could play tricks on shiny/reflective wood, plastic and metal giving another hunter the impression of turkey movement.
All the other comments about movement are on the mark; a camo gun makes all those movements easier and less detectible. Flat earth tone paints are cheap and any gun can be painted.



You can't really be serious but if you are I am never going to hunt in Wisconsin because their hunter safety courses obviously really suck if you run around shooting at shiny objects without first identifying your target. How does seeing a movement, hand or shiny object equate to seeing a bearded bird in the spring and identifying it as a legal target ?

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retranger
 
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Re: Weapon Concealment ?

Postby retranger » December 11th, 2013, 6:37 pm

timbrhuntr wrote: How does seeing a movement, hand or shiny object equate to seeing a bearded bird in the spring and identifying it as a legal target ?
:roll: :roll:

I agree 100% No human looks like any turkey or deer. In NY the shooter is now being prosecuted.
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ylpnfol
 
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Re: Weapon Concealment ?

Postby ylpnfol » December 11th, 2013, 7:58 pm

You can't really be serious but if you are I am never going to hunt in Wisconsin because their hunter safety courses obviously really suck if you run around shooting at shiny objects without first identifying your target. How does seeing a movement, hand or shiny object equate to seeing a bearded bird in the spring and identifying it as a legal target ?[/quote]


I agree also, it is wise to hunt defensively, but anyone that shoots at movement, without first identifying the target, should be prosecuted.....regardless of what the victim was wearing.....
David

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ticklishtompro
 
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Re: Weapon Concealment ?

Postby ticklishtompro » December 11th, 2013, 11:58 pm

You can't really be serious but if you are I am never going to hunt in Wisconsin because their hunter safety courses obviously really suck if you run around shooting at shiny objects without first identifying your target. How does seeing a movement, hand or shiny object equate to seeing a bearded bird in the spring and identifying it as a legal target ?[/quote]

First off generalizations like that are not right. There is not a problem with the hunter safety in WI. I don't care what state you are hunting in there are irresponsible people. I am a hunter safety instructor in WI and we stress the know your target and what is beyond. People unfortunately make poor choices and don't identify their target. This is nothing new and unfortunately it will not be the last time it happens.
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Treerooster
 
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Re: Weapon Concealment ?

Postby Treerooster » December 12th, 2013, 1:30 am

I deleted what I originally wrote because I was a bit ticked off when I wrote it. Probably wouldn't serve any good purpose.

But I agree with ticklishtompro, generalizations are not right.

and I will keep this from my original post.

If you think you could never be shot by someone than you are a danger to yourself...If you think you could never shoot anyone than you are a danger to others.
As far as this turkey thing......I know enough...to know enough...that I don't know enough

timbrhuntr
 
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Re: Weapon Concealment ?

Postby timbrhuntr » December 12th, 2013, 10:52 am

I figured my post would attract the ire of some of the Wisconsin hunters on here and I understand that. What I don't understand is that a new hunter was told that he not only needs a camo gun but better be completely covered in camo and not so a turkey won't see him but because another hunter will shoot him. I guess that doesn't bother you. Well it bothers me. I guess I am a danger to myself and other hunters because I never even lift my gun on an approaching turkey unless I have identified it and I surely don't aim my weapon and shoot at something without being 100% sure it is the object I am after.

charlie elk
 
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Re: Weapon Concealment ?

Postby charlie elk » December 12th, 2013, 8:21 pm

Here is what I wrote about turkey hunting safety after my buddy was shot. Dewey posted the link to that thread.
Jerry is a long time MN hunter safety instructor who teaches hunters how to avoid these accidents. I taught MN hunter education for 20+ years, in particular turkey hunting and its safety. As part of our volunteer instructing we have studied the anatomy of accidents.
It is extremely important for all us to understand how one of these accidental shootings happens from the shooter's perspective.
Consider the average shooter in accidents have 17+ years of hunting experience.
What?! How can this be?
A psychological condition called "premature closure"-- this is when an experience hunter's subconscious brain takes all the visual and auditory clues that he has seen and heard so many times before with approaching game; he becomes convinced a turkey is present. He prematurely closes out other conflicting queues and instead the shooter begins searching for parts of the turkey, head, wing, movement, etc.
The victim camouflaged is mostly hidden. It is the parts of the man; a white hand, piece of his cheek, ear lobe, exposed neck or t shirt that is screened by brush and moves a bit. The human form is hidden from the shooters view and a form of tunnel vision occurs. This is when the accident happens.
The shooter obviously could prevent this by pausing double and triple checking his target.
Should you ever suspect another turkey hunter is nearby talk out loud, do not move, do not get up to leave or wave. Talk, shout or yell until you get his attention because he might be convinced part of you is a turkey already.
In no way is any of the above intended to excuse the shooter. It is the shooter who has the responsibility and obligation to ensure the safety of all those around him. Never assume you are immune to becoming the shooter who causes an accident. This alone could keep you from suffering premature closure.


BTW, as this seems to matter to some; both the victim and the shooter were from Minnesota, in other words they are NR who hunted WI. The shooter had about 13 years of turkey hunting experience and had traveled all over the country turkey hunting. He was not a beginner.

Fortunately hunting accidents are very rare. Hunting is among the safest of pastimes.
later,
charlie
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After all - we are talking turkey.

timbrhuntr
 
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Re: Weapon Concealment ?

Postby timbrhuntr » December 12th, 2013, 10:41 pm

Actually I have nothing against any hunter from Wisconsin and am sure that their hunter safety course is as good as any other. I only used Wisconsin because your avatar states you are from there. If it said Florida I would have used that. I was trying to get some discussion on the fact that a new hunter was being told he needed to be completely dressed in camo including his gun to guard against being shot by another hunter. I realize that other hunters do shoot at each other. I have had other hunters stalk up to both my calling and to my decoys and luckily I was able to hear them coming and get their attention. In fact I did hear them coming and see a dark figure coming crawling through the bush towards me. I suppose that if I was the type of hunter that shot in this situation without identifying my target I could have just said I had premature closer LOL. The only way I buy into this premature closure scenario is if that same hunter has done this before with satisfactory results. In other words they heard the noise, saw the visual cues and shot killing a turkey without actually identifying it as a turkey especially a turkey with a visible beard. So when this happens again they shoot but instead it is not a dead turkey but a tragic hunting " accident" . They in fact have never really followed proper hunting rules or they would be ingrained and they wouldn't shoot before positively Identifying the target. I do not see how any hunter no matter how long they have been hunting that positively identifies there target everytime before they shoot would all of a sudden just shoot at sound and noise I just don't buy it.

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Steve_In
 
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Re: Weapon Concealment ?

Postby Steve_In » December 13th, 2013, 11:31 am

I think all hunters ed courses are the same. They do this so you do not need to take a course for each state you want to hunt in. A lot of older hunters are exempt from having to take the course due to age, this may be a factor in the higher accident rate among experienced hunters. I personally feel that everyone should have to take the course.
Steve, I love "smoked" turkey

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