shaman wrote:The idea of imprinting in this discussion is kind of confused. Imprinting, as I understand it, is a pretty narrow thing. Chicks imprint on their mother, and learn to follow her around. There is also a window where chicks become imprinted to respond to predators. Beyond that, I am not so sure you can talk about imprinting as a separate process from learning.
Imprint learning is more than that.- Imprinting is phase sensitive learning to establish a behavior pattern. It continues throughout life, not just at birth or shortly after. We humans also do some of our learning this way.
When I think of imprinting I'm thinking of the behavior pattern that is learned: imprinting is a form of learning just more simplistic. Most of what I see in turkeys are behavior patterns. Like in heavy hunted areas the turkeys clearly form a behavior pattern to avoid hunters as they apparently do to avoid any area with a high degree of danger whether from humans, avian or ground based.
shaman wrote:The best way I have for looking at it is to look at the turkey's worldview. It is pretty simplistic. He does not have much of a theory of mind-- that is, he cannot speculate what is going through another being's mind. This is probably a good thing for turkeys. If they were as suspicious as nature would let them, they'd all go huddle in the middle of a field somewhere and starve to death. They see each encounter with a predator as a one-off thing, and it takes something pretty spectacular for them to get so scared that they will avoid a particular place or situation for ever more. In some cases they do. In some, they can be back in a half-hour looking for the hen. My guess is the ones that never ever come back to a blind are possibly experiencing a less-than-common insight, or they get involved somewhere else. Perhaps it takes the sting of a pellet.
I mostly agree and my interpretation many of the other posts it really seems like we are agreeing more than disagreeing and most disagreement may come from our different definitions of memory & learning processes.
Regarding learning by pain: There was one instance while hunting with a newbie, he shot a gob in the leg. I urged him to stay put and continued calling in a few minutes the gob hopping on one foot came back in to his death. Clearly no memory exhibited on the tom's part.
turkey junky wrote:they just wondered around from place to place just happening onto food/water & roost trees???
In my humble opinion, yes. Once they find it, they imprint (behavior pattern) until the food is gone, stumble upon other food or are flushed out and find whatever they need where they land. Perhaps they then imprint (behavior pattern) in the new area. But does this new imprint replace the old? I think not, at least not always.
grizzly wrote:my why of thinking if a tom made it pass 3 years old menory or not they become a hard kill.....wayne
I too have noticed this is sometimes the case.
You bring up another question that puzzles me. How do we know if the turkey who gobbles from the same roost day after day is the same turkey? How do we know any turkey is the same turkey?
Last spring I found a roost tree with a gobbling tom, he was the only turkey in that tree, he flew down in sight and charged over to his death. The next week another turkey was in the same tree and few days later yet another turkey roosted there and they all met their end. Had I not killed them I may have thought I was hunting the same bird. Hmm.