Scoring a Turkey

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ncturkeytalk14
 
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Scoring a Turkey

Postby ncturkeytalk14 » October 26th, 2012, 12:44 pm

Does anyone know how the process of scoring a turkey got started? Why do we add both spur lengths and multiply by 10, where did the 10 come from? The beard length and then multiply by 2, where did the two come from, but the weight stays the same. It seems as like i believe that of scoring whitetails as well, is an overrated scoring system created by someone that has more sense than i got. I guess my question would be like that of B/C and P/Y. Why not keep it simple so that everybody could do it. Measure with a certain criteria, 1/16 of an inch and convert into a decimal add up the your scores and your done. I am curious to find out. Most just say that is the way "they" established it. I have seen in all walks of life "they" are real popular and knowledgeable people.
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NCturkeytalk

Duke0002
 
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Re: Scoring a Turkey

Postby Duke0002 » October 26th, 2012, 9:39 pm

Some things mortal man isn't supposed to know :?

Scoring calculator for mortal men, like me.

http://www.nwtf.org/all_about_turkeys/turkey_score.html

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Treerooster
 
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Re: Scoring a Turkey

Postby Treerooster » October 27th, 2012, 1:56 pm

FWIW I have only scored 1 turkey, that way of scoring my birds is just not for me.

However the method is not that hard. Measure your bird to the 1/16th inch, convert to decimal, multiply the spurs by 10 and beard by 2. Then add it up, np big deal.
The spurs and beard are multiplied to give them more influence. Otherwise a heavy farm 2 year old would beat a mntn 4 year old bird.


For example: take 2 birds. One weighs 25 lbs has 3/4 in spurs and a 10 in beard. The other weighs 20 lbs has 2 in spurs and a 12 in beard. If no multipliers are used the 1st bird scores 36.5 and the 2nd bird scores
36. So a heavy 2 year old beats a 4 or 5 year old bird.

With multipliers the scores would be 60 for the 1st bird and 84 for the 2nd bird. Giving a much higher score for the older bird.
As far as this turkey thing......I know enough...to know enough...that I don't know enough

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ylpnfol
 
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Re: Scoring a Turkey

Postby ylpnfol » October 29th, 2012, 6:14 pm

very good explanation by treerooster, in general, big numbers are much more impressive.....
David

You never know, unless you go

Hookspur
 
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Re: Scoring a Turkey

Postby Hookspur » November 3rd, 2012, 6:59 pm

The current system was developed by Colonel Dave Harbour, who was a famous turkey hunter and outdoor writer back in the 70's and 80's. He tried to set it up so that the weight, beard, and spurs were all basically equal, and it does a pretty good job of that. The NWTF adopted his system and it remains the same today, except that they now reduce all scoring to 16ths (1/16 of a pound being an ounce of weight, and 1/16 of an inch being the most common small fraction on a tape measure). In decimal conversion, 1/16 = .0625.

Back in the late 80's I noticed that heavy 2-year old toms could outscore smaller, but longer-spurred toms, so I started "tweaking" The Colonel's system a bit. I didn't think the 3 categories should be equal...my contention was that body weight should mean substantially less than the other two, and spurs should bear the most important influence of all three. After all, a big Osceola only weighs about 2/3 of what an average eastern does, or even less, while some of those little 'ole swamp dwellers sport daggers for spurs. I've personally killed several Osceolas with spurs longer than 1-5/16, but weighing less than 14 pounds! I believe Lance Vincent's world record Osceola was the first tom with recorded 2 inch spurs, and it held the top spot for several years, but when big Easterns (30+ pounds) started showing up in the record books with equally long spurs, there was no way an Osceola would ever regain that top spot! I wanted a way to better level the playing field between the different subspecies, while rewarding gobblers who lived long and grew hooked spurs.

In my system, I gave weight it's true value (1 pound = 1 point, or .0625 per ounce), but the beard gets 4.0 points per inch (.25 points per 1/16th inch), and the spurs get 32 points per inch (2.0 points per 1/16th inch). Thus, a gobbler weighing 20 lbs., and having a 10 inch beard and matching 1 inch spurs would score 124 points (20.0 + 40.0 + 32.0 + 32.0 = 124.0). With this system, it is very hard for heavy toms to outscore long-spurred gobblers, and that's exactly the way it should be.

A complete side benefit was that the scores then come close to equalizing "trophy-class" gobblers with "trophy-class" whitetail deer, which is something most hunters can relate to. The example entry-level "book" tom above that scores 124.0 points would be approximately equivalent to an entry-level "book" trophy-class whitetail scoreing 125.0. The current world record turkey was taken by James Lewis, and it weighed 33 lbs., 9 ounces, had a beard of 13-3/4 inches, and spurs of 2-1/4 inches and 2-1/8 inches. Converted to decimal numbers and added together in my system, this tom scores 228.5625 points (33.5625 + 55.0 + 72.0 + 68.0 = 228.5625). In Boone & Crockett, their world record typical whitetail scores 213-5/8 points, so you can see how close these systems are to one another.

I wrote the NWTF years ago and they considered changing their system, but the "ship had already sailed" by then, and it would've been too big a headache to revamp their records. Oh, well.....

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Gobblerman
 
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Re: Scoring a Turkey

Postby Gobblerman » November 13th, 2012, 9:16 am

I have always thought that Col. Harbours system of scoring was a great idea,..but really probably needed to be thought-out a bit more before being adopted as the official scoring system for turkeys. The "Hookspur System" would probably have been a better method all-around, and appears to give more emphasis where many of us would consider it due.

To really "get it right", however, I believe a lot of tweaking would be necessary with any system based on subspecies variables that are not easily quantified. I am sure in your wide travels,...Doc, Gary, and any others here... that you have found that comparing gobblers in one locale to those in another is often like the old adage of "apples to oranges".

And very often, the entire "trophy" aspect of turkey hunting is found in the actual hunt rather than the size of the bird.
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Cut N Run
 
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Re: Scoring a Turkey

Postby Cut N Run » November 13th, 2012, 12:09 pm

Gobblerman wrote:
And very often, the entire "trophy" aspect of turkey hunting is found in the actual hunt rather than the size of the bird.


It is all about the hunt for me. One of the lightest weight birds I ever killed hung up for almost an hour and gobbled so many times I was almost tired of hearing him (notice I said almost). It took leaf scratching and purring when his back was turned to get him to finally commit to coming in. That gobbler was just a few feathers over 19 pounds, though his beard was almost a foot, and his spurs were just over an inch. He was dwarfed in weight by my biggest birds, but he was one of the more difficult gobblers I ever fooled. A true trophy to me.

Jim
Luck Counts, good or bad

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ncturkeytalk14
 
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Re: Scoring a Turkey

Postby ncturkeytalk14 » November 16th, 2012, 7:54 am

Truly the "Trophy" is your own personal experience, whether you took the turkey, helped someone else harvest one or just enjoyed the beauty of the hunt, these are the trophies not scored numbers. You can build a lifetime of enjoyable memories in the woods or on the water that can be relived over and over for years and generations to come, but not sitting behind a TV set. Being a maintenance man and electrician by trade, i have seen alot of things in life that are over-engineered or over-thought, or like we say "going around your elbow to get back to your thumb", cause geometry teaches us that the shortest distance between two points is a straight line, or "as the crow flies". When i hear or see turkey and deer scoring methods, they just seem confusing and unrealistic to what he turkey acutally is. I would never think it right to compare sub-species to sub-species, that's apples to oranges, Easterns vs. Rio Grande or Whitetail vs. Mulies. I personally love the whole total experience of turkey hunting, i did not grow up turkey hunting because there were not any around here, but now there are and i fell in love with turkies and turkey hunting, more than i have ever liked any other hunting. An it is a total rush and i love to others getting involved as well, the excitement in my kids when we go, totally awesome. Thanks for everyone's replies.
Mike Davis
NCTURKEY TALK

Hookspur
 
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Re: Scoring a Turkey

Postby Hookspur » November 16th, 2012, 5:33 pm

I couldn't agree more that turkey (and deer) scoring methods in no way reflect the quality of the hunt. They don't, they shouldn't, and they never will. I've had 2-year-olds and even jakes provide unbelievably difficult hunts, and I've had many long-spurred old warriors fall to flash-hunts where they gobbled their heads off and practically committed suicide. You just never know how it's gonna go in the course of a hunt, or how our adversaries will act or react to our calling.

But, there's nothing wrong with recognizing our trophies with methods or systems that compare them to each other...it's a way to honor them, admire their physical attributes, and stand back in awe of just how great a size they can grow to be. It's fun, and no harm is done. The only time I'd have a problem with it is when there is cash, or some other reward given to the hunter. The honor should go to the animal, and I have no interest in fame or fortune being bestowed on the person who merely bagged it.

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hawglips
 
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Re: Scoring a Turkey

Postby hawglips » November 22nd, 2012, 4:10 pm

My most memoriable hunts never include meausurements. To me, the trophy is how the bird was hunted, called in and killed, not how much he weighed or what his measurements are. Color, markings, spur length, beard length, etc, are things to be admired and honored, but don't mean much outside of the context of the hunt.


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