Apply Now

charlie elk
 
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Re: Apply Now

Postby charlie elk » June 1st, 2012, 10:57 am

Treerooster wrote:Do you have any idea what the limits might be?

4 in the south zone and 1 or 2 in the north zone. The talk is a hunter would be able to kill a bird in the north and then hunt in the south for the additional birds with 4 being the total spring limit. This would curtail my hunting back.

ticklishtompro wrote:harlie, have you heard what they want to do? Will it just be a set season like the fall or will there be seperate seasons like now. I have mixed feelings about one long season as the competition for spots in the early going would be terrible! I hunt mostly private land but most of those landowners only let one person in per season. I could see all OTC permits but just not sure how this will all work.

There are a lot of different proposals floating around; the turkey committee, various legislators (both parties) and the WDNR turkey division finished public input meetings, closed the online survey on 5/31 and they are studying the gathered data including season schemes from all the other turkey states. Then they will be coming out with their recommendations. So all is in a holding pattern at this point. There will be public meetings on the various proposals late this summer or early fall.
Some things are going to change.
There have been some private hunter surveys done that include hunters who do not currently hunt turkeys showing 60-70% favor an open 4-6 week spring season. Interestingly when only current resident turkey hunters are included less than 10% want the licensing scheme changed.
All of this should not get anyone's hopes up or down. There are tons of proposals floating around. If you are concerned watch for the next round of WDNR public input meetings these will have more concrete proposals. At least those coming from the DNR and NRB. The legislator side could be the wild card if DNR and NRB decide not to open up the licensing. They apparently are getting some pressure directly from their constituents who do not like the current system.
What I have not heard is how the WI NWTF stands with any changes. Next to the WI Bowhunters you think NWTF would have the most clout.
Last edited by charlie elk on June 1st, 2012, 1:13 pm, edited 1 time in total.
later,
charlie
If you agree with me call it fact; if you disagree - call it my opinion.
After all - we are talking turkey.

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turkey junky
 
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Re: Apply Now

Postby turkey junky » June 1st, 2012, 11:25 am

guess when a state has a good thing going they always have to find a way to throw a wrench into things!!!??? i really like the was WI handles there left over tags dont really care for the lack of concern for non resident turkey hunters in the drawing but?
cant help if land owners are selfish & dont want to really be part of a true draw & apply system!!!??? that is the state of WI fault & lack of knowledge we non resident pay more for a license & get shafted out of prime hunting periods to boot!!!??? similar to SD pheasant license you can only hunt i beleave 10 days on a license & then if you go back to hunt again you must buy another 10 day license & so on...??? why crap on the folks who bring in 10X the money as a resident if not way more!!!???

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Brian Lovett
 
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Re: Apply Now

Postby Brian Lovett » June 1st, 2012, 12:04 pm

This will be interesting. The last time there was a push for a straight "open" season in Wisconsin, the state NWTF supported it heavily. Thankfully, hunters balked at the idea. I have the strong sense that most true turkey hunters — Charlie, ticklishtompro, treerooster, willowridge, etc. — realize the staggering amount of opportunity the current system provides. Also, it would seem to me that DNR officials and legislators wouldn't want to forgo the additional revenue provided by the sale of leftover tags.
I'm sure things will change. They always do. However, with no reasonable biological or social reasons for a change, I can't support it.
Just one guy's opinion.

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turkey junky
 
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Re: Apply Now

Postby turkey junky » June 1st, 2012, 12:38 pm

same thing just happend in MN no reason for change in any way other then to free up MNDNR staff to do other things during the spring turkey season...???

any way i understand the many opportunitys WI has to offer for the turkey season as of now... & hope that bureaucracy is not the reason for change rather then for the good of the turkey & turkey hunters in the state of WI...

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Treerooster
 
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Re: Apply Now

Postby Treerooster » June 1st, 2012, 12:55 pm

Yes it will be interesting to see what comes out of all this.

I like to think the DNR knows what it is doing and I realize they not only have to manage wildlife, but hunters too. The one thing that makes me uneasy is the legislature. I just don't think they make good biological decisions and don't think they make good hunter management decisions either. The legislature just wants to be popular with the populace.

To be honest I questioned the way the DNR managed the turkeys in my area (extreme northern zone 4). The winters of 09/10 and 10/11 were very hard on turkeys and there were significant die offs. The number of turkeys in my area were very low compared to previous years but the number of tags remained the same. However there is the self regulating concept that you can't kill what isn't there and I don't think hunters had much affect on the turkey population in the long run. Last spring (2011) I never heard a gobble on the public land I hunted and there were a LOT of hunters out hunting. But after this past mild winter this spring (2012) I noticed a significant increase in the turkey population along with very little hunter pressure. So even though the DNR did not change the tag numbers the birds bounced back as soon as the weather became favorable.

So in my view the current system has worked, even through some tough times for the turkeys. Why mess with something that works?...but then...there is that legislature. :?
As far as this turkey thing......I know enough...to know enough...that I don't know enough

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Gopherlongbeards
 
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Re: Apply Now

Postby Gopherlongbeards » June 1st, 2012, 1:46 pm

The legislature likes to get involved in things that should be a DNR issue here in MN as well. Whats the point of having a DNR filled with people trained to do these jobs if elected officials are just going to over rule them anyways? I think the current way WI handles things is fantastic. As Brian said the amount of opportunities to hunt turkeys provided by this system is unparalleled. I don't think there is another state in the country that will give you as many opportunities to turkey hunt as WI does if you want them. As a MN resident I find myself becoming more and more resentful of our 1 bird, 5 day season limits when all I have to do is jump across the river to enter a turkey hunter's paradise.

As far as WI giving preference to residents in the spring turkey drawing, I have absolutely no problem with that. In fact, I believe that's the way it should be. By being a resident of a state you should always be given first opportunity to enjoy that states natural resources. When I was a SD resident i really appreciated the various systems in place (resident only openers, limited non-reseident licenses etc.) that ensured residents would be able to enjoy high quality outdoor experiences.

charlie elk
 
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Re: Apply Now

Postby charlie elk » June 1st, 2012, 1:51 pm

Treerooster wrote:The legislature just wants to be popular with the populace.

That is how they keep their jobs, they do what the majority of their constituents want. :?
If those private surveys are correct and I don't know that because I have not seen the cross tabs there is going to be some pressure on them.
Treerooster wrote:To be honest I questioned the way the DNR managed the turkeys in my area (extreme northern zone 4). The winters of 09/10 and 10/11 were very hard on turkeys and there were significant die offs. The number of turkeys in my area were very low compared to previous years but the number of tags remained the same.

This has been my biggest concern with the management of the turkey in WI. The DNR does not manage the bird at all instead they manage the hunters only. That winter was bad, I found lots of dead birds come March. Now the Turkey Committee is talking about cutting permits in unit 4 for this fall and spring 2013. With the huge recruitment occurring so far this spring the DNR is late to the party. :x If less tags would have any effect they should have been cut 2011 fall and 2012 spring tags.

Brian Lovett wrote:would seem to me that DNR officials and legislators wouldn't want to forgo the additional revenue provided by the sale of leftover tags.

One proposal is a long open season with a set number of tags available allowing hunters to purchase a license and the extra tags as they want until sold out. If I were a betting man this is the change that will take place for the fall hunt in 2013. Perhaps as a test run for a new spring hunt format. This would sell out all those unsold late season tags we have now plus the 30,000 un-purchased drawn tags (these just go to waste now), because hunters could buy and use them earlier in the spring hunt.
The current turkey lottery system is expensive and cumbersome. It is my sense the WDNR is looking at this as a way to save money.
Again there is a lot talk, brainstorming and plans floating around at this point(nearly everyone has one), so we can wait for
Scott Walter's (WDNR Turkey Dude) recommendations.
later,
charlie
If you agree with me call it fact; if you disagree - call it my opinion.
After all - we are talking turkey.

charlie elk
 
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Re: Apply Now

Postby charlie elk » June 1st, 2012, 1:56 pm

Gopherlongbeards wrote:As a MN resident I find myself becoming more and more resentful of our 1 bird, 5 day season limits when all I have to do is jump across the river to enter a turkey hunter's paradise.
As far as WI giving preference to residents in the spring turkey drawing, I have absolutely no problem with that. In fact, I believe that's the way it should be. By being a resident of a state you should always be given first opportunity to enjoy that states natural resources.

Cool :geek: , you're a really nice guy you can come on over to paradise anytime. :)
later,
charlie
If you agree with me call it fact; if you disagree - call it my opinion.
After all - we are talking turkey.

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Gopherlongbeards
 
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Re: Apply Now

Postby Gopherlongbeards » June 1st, 2012, 6:03 pm

This has been my biggest concern with the management of the turkey in WI. The DNR does not manage the bird at all instead they manage the hunters only. That winter was bad, I found lots of dead birds come March. Now the Turkey Committee is talking about cutting permits in unit 4 for this fall and spring 2013. With the huge recruitment occurring so far this spring the DNR is late to the party. :x If less tags would have any effect they should have been cut 2011 fall and 2012 spring tags.


In the natural resources management world it seems like you're always stuck playing catch up. With short term population fluctuations like this, especially those driven by natural processes (i.e. a harsh winter and wet spring) by the time a regulation change can be effectively implemented it is often too late to have any significant effect. This is why most management agencies tend to be more conservative when setting seasons and harvest quotas than a population can theoretically support. In the case of Unit 4, I don't really see any need to reduce permit numbers. Research has shown that spring turkey harvest has little if any impact on turkey population. Fall turkey hunting is much less popular, has a much lower overall harvest, and most of that harvest consists of this years poults (which by all accounts so far should be quite abundant), who have the highest natural mortality rates anyways (here we get into the issue of compensatory Vs cumulative mortality. The way I see it, the hierarchy of an individual's importance to the overall population goes something like this: Adult hen >>Juvenile hen >>> Adult gobbler > Jake).

And yes Charlie, I'm planning on spending quite a bit of time in WI this next fall and spring. I always enjoy an opportunity to go home to WI when I can, despite wherever I'm currently residing.

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turkey junky
 
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Re: Apply Now

Postby turkey junky » June 1st, 2012, 10:44 pm

the main thing i dont agree with in restricting non resident hunting in a give n state is basicly i pay more then a non resident dose & they still take my money they same as a resident so why punish me??? the game and fish agencys, NWTF & PH & many other wildlife agency all contribute & gave/give our non resident $$$ to improve & maintain wildlife habitat in states such as SD,ND,WI but then dont allow us to hunt as much as or at the same time as residents... in SD they just want the residents to have 1st crack at the pheasants on state land managed lands same in ND but at least we can we can hunt federal lands & private... all them residents would have to do is get to there hunting spots early but they limit the non resident hunters??? guess if we want to hunt these selfish single minded states we just have to roll with the punches i just wish we didnt have to pay what we do just because we live in another state??? states like NE,KS,OK look forward to & rely on non resident license sales to maintain & keep up there WMA systems & they treat us write multi tags & everybody has the same opening day THEY WAY IT SHOULD BE... OK uses & only uses hunter $$$ obtained through license sales to maintain & keep up there WMA system they use no state tax to do so so i dont bat a eye to pay 140.00 for a license & 10$ a tag to help the wildlife as long as you let me hunt the same as a resident dose... SD handles things ass backwords same as wisconsins draw... a draw system is a draw system not a draw for non residents then after all them get tags then draw the non residents i mean if they did it that way at least let non residents get the chance to hunt a 1st-2nd hunt time period & get there name in for that draw??? thats fair being that the state ups the tag coast for non residents that would even things out but what can we do!!!???

just watched a show think it was NWTF turkey county or get in the game? cant remember? but they were talking about how many of todays state wildlife agencys & state wildlife managers are young & just out of college & the trend of todays wildlife managers are they come from non hunting familys & have little to no knowledge hunting & or how to manage for hunters they gave examples of how many young women wild life managers change the rules & what not after they take over a give n WMA like they open gates & roads that were always closed to the public & or close roads that were always open ETC. & open up WMAs to MTN bikers
& or ATVs & or vehicles & this is all relevant as they said many of them wildlife managers think outdoor activity just means MTN bike n dirt bike n ATV ride n ETC. so they crap on all the other users of the WMA & or forest unknowingly hunters being the main ones being crapped on... i think the same mentality goes into some of these states set n season dates & or changes to the hunting bag limits & or hunt zones being expanded or retracted...

so basicly just because these folks are wild life managers & went to school to be so they still make mistakes & some have little to no knowledge that they are even messing things up that work fine for everybody hunters included because they are not hunters themselfs... i still wonder why & for what reason they had to mess with our MN turkey season??? very little to no thought put into the changes they just wanted to change things to change things & that not a good enuff reason to change a hole structure of a give n states season dates & or hunt units...

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