The S-word?

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JPH
 
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The S-word?

Postby JPH » March 16th, 2009, 5:35 am

We've got another thread going that has raised some good questions about turkey hunting trends and safety.
 
- Are new products (realistic decoys, long range loads, etc.) making turkey hunting more dangerous?
- Are hunters who use aggressive tactis (run and gun, stalking, and tag-team hunts) causing more shooting accidents?
- Are more turkey hunters leading to more deaths?
 
I have done a little looking but have not been able to come up with hard data one way or another. It seems to me that the trend is pointing to fewer and fewer shooting accidents but I cannot provide definitave numbers to support that.
 
This much I can prove. Heart attacks and non-shooting accidents cause far more deaths than two party shootings, and the numbers are NOT improving. What are we doing about that? Might we better off encouraging hunters to get in shape, watch their step and carry a cell phone instead of being critical of new products and tactics?
 
I mean are we serious about helping hunters come home or are we simply trying to keep things from changing? Your thoughts?

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tracebusta32
 
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RE: The S-word?

Postby tracebusta32 » March 16th, 2009, 8:45 am

Joe, I am sure you have looked up the statistics but if you haven't you will see that the number of accidents have in fact decreased since the inception of required hunter safety courses.
But I will play along and give you my thought's on it, although this seems to be a nasty little thread that keeps racking up the most number of post's over the last few weeks.
 
 
 
Are new products (realistic decoys, long range loads, etc.) making turkey hunting more dangerous?

Yes

Are hunters who use aggressive tactis (run and gun, stalking, and tag-team hunts) causing more shooting accidents?

Yes

Are more turkey hunters leading to more deaths?
 
No

I mean are we serious about helping hunters come home or are we simply trying to keep things from changing? Your thoughts?
 
No, not worried about other hunters,worried about myself.
Malachi 4:5-6
My Brother: WMB

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JPH
 
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RE: The S-word?

Postby JPH » March 16th, 2009, 9:42 am

Trace,
 
1. I have looked up stats. I said as much in my OP. I did not find solid data to support my opinion. Apparently you have. Please share it.
 
2. Please explain the part about being nasty and wracking up posts. I don't get it.
 
3. New products are making things more dangerous, but by your admission accidents are on the decline? Please expalin.
 
4. Aggressive tactis are making things more dangerous, but by your admission accidents are on the decline? Again, please explain.
 
5. Thanks for making your level of concern for your fellow hunters loud and clear.
 
 
 

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RE: The S-word?

Postby Limbhanger150 » March 16th, 2009, 9:44 am

               I found a few things by googling turkey hunting accident statistics.
Single hunter accidents comprise about 25 per cent of all accidents. Not sure if that includes falls, heart attack, or if it was shooting accidents. I want to say it was shooting accidents. Self inflicted gun shot wounds. I think Pennsylvania actually does have a sharp decline in turkey hunting accidents.
I could not find any solid numbers either to support any claims. Some states hunter numbers are actually down too. I do know that I personally have heard about more accidents than I used to but I also remember a rash of treestand accidents a few years back (which has nothing to do with turkey hunting but its just an example). I think it probably is better per capita because of the hunter education, but more accidents probably happen and the chance of an accident has to be higher because of the numbers. So I guess we both have an argument. I really need more time to read all that stuff.


         As for the questions above my answers are yes yes and maybe. I know things are gonna change, heck, I have changed my views over the years.

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JPH
 
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RE: The S-word?

Postby JPH » March 16th, 2009, 9:54 am

According to a 2007 CNN story about a Univ. of Mich. study, "Heart attacks are three times more likely to take a hunter's life than a gunshot injury."

Heart attacks are not listed as hunting accidents.

If the "advancements" in turkey hunting eqipment and tactics are leading to a more dangerous enviornment, where is the proof?

Newman
 
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RE: The S-word?

Postby Newman » March 16th, 2009, 10:03 am

ORIGINAL: JPH



If the "advancements" in turkey hunting eqipment and tactics are leading to a more dangerous enviornment, where is the proof?


I would think that most hunters are more aware of safety than they were years ago.  I know as I was growing up, hardly anyone wore seat belts, and child car seats were not used by most people.  You wouldn't even think of not putting your kid in a child restraint know.
Before the advent of heavier than lead loads, and better choke tubes, there probably was more hunters peppered by shot than there is now.  Just with the new loads, these "accidents" cause more bodily damage, and possible higher mortality per incident.

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RE: The S-word?

Postby JPH » March 16th, 2009, 10:23 am

ORIGINAL: Newman
I would think that most hunters are more aware of safety than they were years ago.  I know as I was growing up, hardly anyone wore seat belts, and child car seats were not used by most people.  You wouldn't even think of not putting your kid in a child restraint know.
Before the advent of heavier than lead loads, and better choke tubes, there probably was more hunters peppered by shot than there is now.  Just with the new loads, these "accidents" cause more bodily damage, and possible higher mortality per incident.

 
Excellent points Newman, and welcome to the forum!
 
I do, however, want to address the line that I highlighted in red. The mortality for gunshot victims has actually decreased signifigantly over the past 30 years. Not because of any paticular changes in ammunition or firearms, but because of changes in 911 systems, pre-hospital trauma care, and the growing number or trauma centers. (Tust me, I can back this up.)
 
Again, one accident is one too many. I will never dispute that, but I think we may have a "sky is falling" mentality that is taking our focus away from what is really taking out hunters.

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RE: The S-word?

Postby tracebusta32 » March 16th, 2009, 10:45 am

1: Sorry I meant looked up hard facts.
 
2: Just saying that this type thread has been floating around for the last month or so, with some nasty overtones.
 
3: New products being longer shot ranges, will in fact cause more "accidents" because you will have guns capable of reaching out to 80 yards and a turkey is pretty small at 80 yards eh?
 
4: If you look, and I'm sure you have you will see that the majority of the accidents in turkey hunting occured when someone was mistaken for a turkey moving through the woods.
 
5: No problem
 
 
 
 
ORIGINAL: JPH

Trace,

1. I have looked up stats. I said as much in my OP. I did not find solid data to support my opinion. Apparently you have. Please share it.

2. Please explain the part about being nasty and wracking up posts. I don't get it.

3. New products are making things more dangerous, but by your admission accidents are on the decline? Please expalin.

4. Aggressive tactis are making things more dangerous, but by your admission accidents are on the decline? Again, please explain.

5. Thanks for making your level of concern for your fellow hunters loud and clear.



Malachi 4:5-6
My Brother: WMB

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JPH
 
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RE: The S-word?

Postby JPH » March 16th, 2009, 11:09 am

Trace, please help me to understand your position. You bagan by stating, "the number of accidents have in fact decreased since the inception of required hunter safety courses", yet you continue to claim that the items in question are making it more dangerous. Which is it?
 
To assert that a more powerful firearm is more likely to cause an accident is something the anti-gun lobby has tried without success. The responsability for an accident rests in the hands of the shooter. We are more educated in that regard than ever before and the numbers appear to prove it.
 
What we are failing to do is act on the issues that are continuing to kill hunters in unchanging numbers. IMO, those issues will not be corrected as long as the focus is on attacking new equipment or lawful tactics.

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RE: The S-word?

Postby tracebusta32 » March 16th, 2009, 11:31 am

An 80 yard shotgun doesn't belong in turkey woods. Your right about it resting in the hands of the shooter which is why I said a turkey at 80 yards is quite smallish eh?

My position is that the numbers are going down, with the hunters safety courses and websites to help remind people of the risks, however with products that allow a shotgun to reach out to 80 yards to kill a turkey and people running around in the woods with the wrong mindset will change those numbers in due time.
 
 
And of course all these things are MY opinion therefore aren't worth much, so take it as you wish.
Malachi 4:5-6
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