Any interest in still target shooting?

[allaboutshooting]

Hey Larry,

It's good to hear from you and our best wishes as well.

I truly think that your shoot is successful and it is, because it's relevant. You attract new shooters and allow folks to pattern their guns, using different combos and you also keep prices reasonable.

I also agree that not every event should be considered a fundraiser. That can drive people away.

This event was conceived 17 years ago when shotshells and turkey chokes really did not exist to any real degree and while the products have changed, the standards (rules) have not.

I don't think most shooters relate to how many pellets can be shot in a 3" circle. There were only 18 shooters that shot more than 4-5 times, only 24 who shot at all and that was at the "World Championship"! A new shooter who traveled 1000+ miles to attend, summed it up by asking, "What's the point? What's the relevance if you win?"

I think it's time to think of some new ways to make this sport interesting, less expensive and again relate to turkey hunters. I have some ideas and would like to hear yours and those of others.

Thanks,
Clark

[Gobblerman]

Clark, this is a good topic for discussion....and I especially would like to hear your ideas on what kinds of modifications to the still target shoot format would attract more participants and make the competitions more interesting and equitable for those involved. 
 
Personally, I have participated in a number of still target shoots over the last several years, although none of them have been anything other than friendly get-togethers with members of our local and/or state chapters of NWTF.  Although I have enjoyed all of these events, in which almost all of the shooters have been content to shoot "factory" guns and chokes, it seemed pretty obvious to me that if someone got serious enough about the shoots to really want to win them with regularity, they could develop a gun that would outperform almost all "standard" guns and chokes. 
 
Now, I could be mistaken in that assessment, and I readily admit that I have no qualifications or expertise on the subject at all.  I also recognize from reading your submissions here over the last year or so, that you are probably the foremost authority on this subject on this forum, and most likely well beyond the confines of this group.  So correct me if I am wrong, but it would seem that an individual with the luxury of time, money, and interest could readily develop a gun that would put her/him in an elite class of shooters that the average guy could not come close to competing with in the still target format.
 
...But getting back to my own personal experience with the shoots, and to the reason I make the above statement.  Like I stated, I have taken part in a number of these shoots, and had always used my "standard" turkey guns with mostly factory chokes in them.  I was competitive, but not outstanding in the shoots...until, on a whim, I decided to pull out an old Winchester autoloader that a well-known gunsmith had modified for me for turkey hunting about twenty-five years ago.  Because this gun would only shoot 2 3/4" shells, and did not have all of the "bells and whistles" that my newer custom turkey guns have, I had relegated it to the gun closet years ago. 
 
To make a long story short, I won the first shoot I used that gun in, and will likely win more of these "amateur" events, if I choose to keep shooting it.  However, I feel a little uneasy about using it in these friendly little gatherings we have each year, especially against a bunch of guys that are just using their factory guns and chokes.  My conscience in this matter bothered me enough that, at our last shoot, I offered to let any of the other competitors shoot that gun in the competition if they wanted to. ....And, in fact, I am considering suggesting that, at our future shoots, a rule be instated that allows any shooter to choose to shoot another competitors gun in the competition if they so choose. 
 
Which brings us back full-circle to your question about how to make these shoots more competitive and interesting for all.  Just do what I suggest, and instate a rule that allows any competitor the option of shooting any gun that is being used in the competition!  Wouldn't that make things more interesting!? ....and probably really P.O. those guys that have spent thousands of dollars and hours developing guns just so they could win these shoots! (LOL)
 
Jim

[mark hay]

i had no idea there were such things happening. there was in the past several CARD SHOOTS around our area but it seems that TOO MANY people used the same event for consuming alcohol.another aspect is the noise factor. the last card shoot that tried to organize was brought to an end by choosing the wrong location for the set up and that local community complained about the noise until the organizers gave up and they quit.  
BUT !after reading all the above ''posts'' i would have an interest in such FRIENDLY COMPETITION, which like said previously, could be used as an educational platform for new and young hunters.

[GearJammer]

  I am glad this topic was revived. If anyone is interested...pick up the latest copy of Shooting Sportsmen. There is a great article written by Michael McIntosh with his take on why the shotgun sports are losing some of their popularity. Honestly...as I read his article, I couldn't help but to agree with him.
 Hope everyone had a great Thanksgiving and a great Christmas coming up!!  [;)] 

[allaboutshooting]

Hey Jim,

Thank you for your kind words and positive comments. It sounds like the shoots that you've attended have been a lot of fun. A friendly get together where folks shoot factory chokes and factory guns can be not only a lot of fun but very productive. When you shoot your gun at a paper target you can see how it patterns and that was one reason the NWTF started these shoots.

It was also begun to urge shotshell makers, gun manufacturers and choke tube designers to make better products so that hunters could cleanly kill turkeys, at reasonable ranges. There weren't many "real" turkey guns then, few turkey loads and even fewer true turkey chokes. It was an area ripe for improvement, especially with the growth in the numbers of turkey hunters that was happening at that time.

The 40 yard range was selected as the maximum range at which hunters should shoot. The 3" circle, within a 10" circle was selected to use to count the number of pellets due in large part to the low numbers that would hit that target. Counting pellet hits in a 3" circle would just be easier than anything else and since we turkey hunters shoot shotguns like rifles, it seemed like a good idea at the time.

Most hunters see no relevance of shooting at a 3" circle and counting the pellets in that area to what they need in a hunting shotshell/choke tube combination. In fact, many would consider any "combination of ingredients" that would put so many pellets in such a small area to be way too tight for real world hunting situations.

Your observation about using guns with extensive work done on them is also an excellent one. Technology has advanced more quickly than has the ability to detect "improvements" made by skilled gunsmiths. Plainly said, a dishonest shooter could have things done to his gun (or choke tube) to give him an advantage over another shooter who was using an unaltered gun, that could not be detected by an official at a shoot. Thus, a shooter who showed up at a shoot with his hunting gun was at a real disadvantage when shooting against one of these folks.

That situattion caused a rule change for the 2008 season and the "Hunter Class" was eliminated, leaving only unregulated or Open Class guns to compete. Those guns and choke tubes can have unlimited modifications (barrel length being the only limitation) made to them and thus the last link to hunters was broken.

In order for any sport to grow or even maintain its numbers, you must have a constant infusion of new shooters to replace those who lose interest or no longer compete for some other reason. That just has not happend with this sport. It has had more drop out over the last few years than have begun shooting.

To keep this post to some "readable" length, I'll stop here but will certainly share some additional observations and thoughts, if there's some interest.

Thanks,
Clark

[allaboutshooting]

Hey Mark,

i had no idea there were such things happening.

That has also been one of the major problems. The only way for the sport to grow is by having more shoots in more places, all over the U.S.

Thanks,
Clark

[Steve_In]

Clark I can see how a "stock"or factory division would be a nightmare for those putting on a shoot.  There would be all kinds of mods that would be hard to see or even tell without a highly skilled committee examining each gun.  The original 10 bore ML I shoot would not even qualify with it's honed and jug choked bores.  These events would have to have a social gathering atmosphere to keep people coming as it would not take long to complete the shooting.  I wouldn't mind going to one to see what it is all about if it were held near where I live.
 

[allaboutshooting]

Hey Steve,

The Hunter or factory class had largely been shot on the "honor system" for many years. No one ever inspected the chokes that were used and officials just accepted information received from the shooter about brand and exit diameter. Barrel modifications apparently were also quite easily made that were undetectable.

Since some hunters use the information that comes out of the NWTF championship shoot to make buying decisions and since the NWTF could not really verify the information, they were in a tough situation of perhaps misrepresenting results. It left them with little choice.

I agree that there needs to be a social aspect to these shoots. It should be a group of like-minded folks getting together to shoot and have fun. It would allow all of us who like to hunt and shoot to reach out to others and perhaps introduce them to our sport.

Thanks,
Clark

[hoosierhunter]

Hi Clark, how you and Lois been? Lookin foward to meetin both of ya at Nashville. I've spoken with several of my Prostaffers and retailers here in Indiana about sponsoring a turkeyshoot and providing prizes and or cash to the winners and top several places in each catogory. My main goal is to bring attention to Hoosier Hunter Custom Calls and the retailer who is handling my product in that particular area.  This will be used as an incentive for the retailers to carry the line of HHCC, as well as a BBQ for lunch, venision brats being the main course. There would also be 2 seminars given, one on turkey calls and the proper operation of said calls, and the other on turkey hunting strategies. We have also discussed a calling competition to add a little spice to the fun. I see this as an 8am-5pm event. After many years of waiting on the spring season to roll around, I would have enjoyed an event like I've just described, 1-3 weeks prior to season opener. Any suggestions on such an event, would be appreciated.
 
                                                           GOOD LUCK, GOD BLESS, AND STAY SAFE!
                                                                             L.K.LESLIE
                                                           HOOSIER HUNTER CUSTOM CALLS
                                                           MOSSY OAK PROSTAFF 

[allaboutshooting]

Hey Larry,

That sounds like a great event. You've planned a good bit of variety and a number of attractions. I think you can have good attendance and it should be both fun and educational.

The NWTF has a package that's available and you may want to consider it. You can access information athttp://www.nwtf.org/special_events/images/turkey_shoot/2008_Sanctioned_Shoot_Rules.pdf

I've organized several of those shoots and would be happy to be of any assistance possible.

I think keeping it fun and family-friendly are the 2 keys.

Just let me know if I can be of help.

Thanks,
Clark