wats the problem with 3 1/2" shells?

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dmcianfa
 
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RE: wats the problem with 3 1/2" shells?

Postby dmcianfa » February 9th, 2009, 12:50 pm

You may say it's overdoing it, but I have not changed my setup for years and years now and it is, in my opinion, the best it can be.  More than I can say for those that spend countless hours every year patterning, sighting, firing round after round, buying new chokes, buying box after box of shells of all sorts of size and what not, wasting money.  Spend the money at one sitting instead of nickle and diming yourself to death and do it right the first time, then you won't have to waste all that money over the course of the life of your shotgun, not to mention time that you could be spending doing something else you enjoy.  I fire two rounds every year.  One at a target to verify gun, and one at a Tom if I get the chance.  Some say its excentric, but then again to each his own. 

I wonder sometimes how much those folks miss a turkey every so often? 
"After eating an entire moose, a mountain lion felt so good he started roaring. He kept it up until a hunter came along and shot him. The moral: When you're full of bull, keep your mouth shut."

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dogknott
 
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RE: wats the problem with 3 1/2" shells?

Postby dogknott » February 9th, 2009, 2:02 pm

I see a thread like this on a monthly basis at waterfowl and preditor sites, and its endless as well as worthless. so lets retreat on shell size abit, your shooting a 12 ga blunderbuss, i have killed many turkeys and hundreds of geese with a itty bitty 20ga, so WHY would yo possibly need a 12 ga? or even that shoulder breaking 3.5?
 
Shoot what you want and are comfertable with and be HAPPY AND ENJOY.
 
Oh,, and i have big boy britchs, have for 12 years, when i got my first SBE, and shoot a case or more 3 1/2's a year.

icdedturkes
 
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RE: wats the problem with 3 1/2" shells?

Postby icdedturkes » February 9th, 2009, 3:48 pm

ORIGINAL: dmcianfa

You may say it's overdoing it, but I have not changed my setup for years and years now and it is, in my opinion, the best it can be.  More than I can say for those that spend countless hours every year patterning, sighting, firing round after round, buying new chokes, buying box after box of shells of all sorts of size and what not, wasting money.  Spend the money at one sitting instead of nickle and diming yourself to death and do it right the first time, then you won't have to waste all that money over the course of the life of your shotgun, not to mention time that you could be spending doing something else you enjoy.  I fire two rounds every year.  One at a target to verify gun, and one at a Tom if I get the chance.  Some say its excentric, but then again to each his own. 

I wonder sometimes how much those folks miss a turkey every so often? 
Actually if someone does not want to nickel and dime, they buy Nitro Company from the get go. If you are not shooting Nitros or handloads your gun is not maximized.

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dmcianfa
 
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RE: wats the problem with 3 1/2" shells?

Postby dmcianfa » February 10th, 2009, 7:27 am

I agree, I shoot nitros myself
"After eating an entire moose, a mountain lion felt so good he started roaring. He kept it up until a hunter came along and shot him. The moral: When you're full of bull, keep your mouth shut."

pabeard buster
 
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RE: wats the problem with 3 1/2" shells?

Postby pabeard buster » February 10th, 2009, 1:03 pm

glad this thread is getting so much attention. i figured it would be a hot topic. what im gatherin from this is its a matter of prefferance. the recoil to performance ratio is about equal. many people just dont wana change what aint broke, wich i understand. in my opinion, with a new gun(semi), and new choke, i might as well go with the 3 1/2s, and work out the choke from there. thanks yall for youre help.
 
as for the mathmatics on a good or not good pattern. i definetly get the idea, but on my sallary, i cant afford $300+ in shells b4 the season.
cluck cluck,
Gobble Gobble Gobble,
BANG!

tinker
 
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RE: wats the problem with 3 1/2" shells?

Postby tinker » February 19th, 2009, 9:17 am

Maybe I can shed some light here.
 I was working in a gun shop that was a Mossburg Flagship dealer back when the 3.5 first came out. I actually hunted with one of the first ones out of the factory proto -works shop. The Federal distributor gave me 12 shells. 6 to pattern and 6 for hunting.
 To say the gun kills on one end and maims on the other would be a gross understatement. I actually broke a tooth at the bench. ( My NEF 10 gauge loosened it).
 Any how, the theory behind it is one of ballistics. In guns, we have 3 types of ballistics. Internal (what happens from firing to muzzle) external, ( what happens to the projectile or payload in flight) and terminal ( what happens when the bullet/payload hits its target.)
 The idea was to improve the internal and external ballistics of a load without compromising the down rage usefulness and without stepping up to a bigger bore size.   If you stretch the payload out in the breech, you allow it more time to"settle" as it runs up through the forcing cone, into the bore and finally choke and there is less packing and deforming of the pellets. Once in flight, the longer shot string holds a pattern tighter, longer than a shorter column does. This is more effective on moving game than stationary game for obvious reasons. The longer the string, the better chance of impact on waterfowl or upland fliers.
Then there is the obvious benefit of more payload capability.
 I suppose statistically you could twist it any way you want but the reality of it is a matter of physics more that stats.
 For me, my 3 inch Winchester does just fin, thanks. My ulti-mag sat in the vault for 6 years til I sold it to a silly young fella with a habit of self mutilation.  That gun still makes me shudder to think back at how that felt touching one off with my back up against a stone wall........

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Turkeybuster
 
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RE: wats the problem with 3 1/2" shells?

Postby Turkeybuster » February 19th, 2009, 5:44 pm

HI TINKER
 
I shoot a 3.5 and can't see where the recoil problem comes into play?
To be honest with you the first one I shot was a BPS with a 30" barrel and it kicked like a mule then I shot the 3.5 in a citori and found the recoil to be a lot less then went to a winchester Super X 2 and also a Browning Gold and found that the recoil was less than a Remington 1100 with 3" shells.
I would never shoot it in a pump gun or a single barrel of any manufacture that is torture however in the proper gun it is no worse than the 3" mag.
 
Turkeybuster

tinker
 
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RE: wats the problem with 3 1/2" shells?

Postby tinker » February 20th, 2009, 7:04 am

Tb,
I agree more with you on that statement now than I did 15 years ago. Most manufactures of 3.5s have taken the liberty of reconfiguring the stocks.  Auto loaders sure do eat up a good bunch of the recoil, well "felt recoil". The more drop at comb and drop at heel you have, the harder a guns recoil will feel. The closer the line of bore ad line of sight are the, less perceived recoil. The amount of recoil is the same, its all in how your body absorbs it. Gun weight is a factor too.
My ulti-mag was a 22" ( i believe) pump gun with no brake and a 1/2' recoil pad.  I was 220 lbs and in pretty good shape and 3 rounds off the bench was about all I could handle before my retinas became detached!! Tough-guy not withstanding, any more than that and the day after was painful putting the coat on!!

Tink

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Turkeybuster
 
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RE: wats the problem with 3 1/2" shells?

Postby Turkeybuster » February 20th, 2009, 10:09 am

TINKER
I can feel your pain as a friend of mine about your size wanted to get a 3.5 and found a 870 with a short barrel and he liked the advantage camo that was on it. I couldn't talk him out of it his reply was I'am a big boy! Well to make a long story short after 10 shots he was so gun shy he was missing the whole target at 30yds. to add insult to injury his face swelled up and he wouldn't shoot the gun for three weeks.He has missed several turkeys with it and now we are shopping for a semi.
If the gun is not right they will beat you silly for sure.
TB

Magnumdood
 
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RE: wats the problem with 3 1/2" shells?

Postby Magnumdood » February 21st, 2009, 10:01 am

ORIGINAL: allaboutshooting

When Mossberg and Federal got together to produce the first 3.5" chambered 12 gauge shotgun and the shells to fit it, they were trying to help those of us who shot waterfowl, who had been forced to shoot non-toxic shot (steel then) get a killing load. The longer length allowed more of the larger steel shot to go in the shell.

Turkey hunters demanded the 3.5" gun (larger payload) and gunmakers and shotshell makers soon obliged us by trotting out a number of different camo guns and shotshells.

Over the years I've patterned a lot of shotshells and here's what I've found. All things being equal, a 2.75" shell will pattern better than a 3" shell and a 3" shell will pattern better than a 3.5" shell. There are certainly exceptions and I'm sure somenone has a gun that patterns a longer shell better than a shorter one but that's been my experience after firing a few thousand at "big paper". When I say pattern, I also mean consistently, at least 10+ shells, not just 1 particular pattern that comes from a "hot shell".

Shotshell manufacturers and choke makers have learned so much in the last 10 years or so about performance of their products and for the most part, the shells and chokes are so much better, I don't see much if any need for the 3.5" gun today for us as turkey hunters.

In most cases in my experience, compared to the 3.5" shells, the 3" shells pattern better, they cost less and they kick a lot less, I only recommend 3" shells for turkey hunters, even if they have a 3.5" gun.

If however, you are a waterfowl hunter and shoot steel shot, the increased length of the 3.5" shell will allow you to have a larger payload of big shot needed to kill those birds.

Thanks,
Clark

http://allaboutshooting.com/article_info.php?articles_id=208

This brief excerpt may help a bit.

Clark is being modest; he's fired tens of thousands of shot shells out of every make/model of shotgun he could get his hands on using every choke on the market plus many custom chokes.  You may challenge his results, which seems to be the status quo on this site (anyone's results who differ from yours), but his experience is what it is.  Setting up my wife's, daughter's and son's shotguns was a much abbreviated process due to the fact that I live near Clark and I asked him for help then listened when he gave me advice.

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