GRR! need some help guys!

[VTlongbeardslayer]

what am i doing wrong? i go out i think all got these birds all cornered at night when i roost them, then when they fly down, and i call to them, they just wont come in! even if they arent with hens.. they just will not come in! what am i doing wrong? can anyone hook me up with a simple call sequence?

[mark hay]

Have you ever witnessed hens going to a tom in the light before the sun rises ? They DON'T  always make a sound doing it . Last year I watched hens fly from treetops to a gobbling bird ,,,silently. The very next morning I was set up in the dark , waiting for the gobbling to begin . Moments after he got fired up I hear leaves crunching softly behind me . I remained perfectly still as a walking hen passed within feet of me . RIGHT, she was going to tom and never called .
  There isn't any real need for the hen to call . I know they do at times even though they are roosted within sight of the ol' boy . On the other side of this COIN of FRUSTRATION , it's the same with the tom after he flies down and all the girls gather 'round him . He doesn't need to gobble at that time . Yet many times he does , and it's probably due to the presence of younger males and he just wants to keep them reminded who's the BOSS.
   I'm guessing here on this statement ,,,,,but you are pretty far north and it's likely that there are hens with the toms . I may be wrong .
  
 Right now , on the public land where I hunt, there are dozens of gobblers walking around all morning gobbling like fools trying to get a girl . At the same time , there are dozens of hunters trying to sound like that girl , BUT ! there has been so many hunters , walking all over this area and calling ,and spooking birds with movement , and calling too loud ,,,and too much ,,,,now the gobblers won't respond to most calling other than some ''STAND AT A DISTANCE '' gobbling , waiting for the hen to come to him .
 They learn very , very fast . The ones that are slow to learn ,,,ARE DEAD .
 This is part of the attraction for turkey hunters , to figure out what it takes to fool ol' tom. There is no point in letting it get you frustrated . Our frustration usually will lead us to make more mistakes and be impatient .
 
 If you can get real close to roosted birds , in the dark , quietly and be the first hen to tree call to the gobbler he MAY come . Don't give him too much calling . If a real hen comes along , and you can move without the tom seeing you , move right toward that hen and make her fly off. Less competition for you .

[Everyday Hunter]

Good post, Mark.

Steve

[O.B. Wallace]

What I would advise is to only use a cluck call when setting up on a bird say within 100 yds on the roost or on a bird that is gobbling and is not over that distance. The only time most of the time that I yelp or any other calling is if a bird is way way off. That hearing is way beyond what we as hunters think it is. Don't forget... they can hear you thinking and see you change your mind... at least down here in North Carolina. I only cluck one time after he has gobbled and if you can tell if he is on the roost and he gobbles and he sounds like he is looking away from you... cluck again immediately after the gobble..ONLY ONCE... he will hear it. The longer you hunt the thunder chickens the more you will realize tha you only want them to know where you are at ...say within a one half acre or more, not less... and the only way you can do this and put the odds in your favor is with hte soft cluck and purrs. When I get a bird coming and I know he is hot the only thing that can mess things up is to let him know exactly where you are sitting and if he knows that when he gets within ANY shotguns range, and I do mean within 50 tp 75 yards... most of the time he is going to win this game.Now, if you can see him and he is looking for that hen that he knows is on this one half acre or more ... and in this case more is better, chances are in your favor and you can kill this bird with a soft cluck or purr.... and I do mean soft. Most people can not call what they think is soft enought for ole Tom to hear it. Just this past Thursday, I called in 2 Toms at 6:30 off the roost with only 2 or3 clucks I believe and then when they got within 35 to 40 yds of us ... and I knew that the light loads that she was shooting was good for about 25 yds.... as the biggest bird was behin a small tree that last light purr...sounding like a small jenny hen thaqt had not been bred as of yet.... well he just could not stand it and just had to stick that big head out for a look see. Well, the rest is history ... and that was number 3 for us. I cannot tell you the birds that are killed ever year using this train of thought and the hunters that go home wondering what went wrong... and practice some mor on theit calling. Here in N.C. it is winding down, but I say a bird in a pasture at 293 yds this moriing strutting with 2 hens ... watched them for an hour in my truck. Wife was sleeping late, so possibly next week we can fill that last tag for her. God has been good to me this season... one 20.8 lb. and 21.4 with all the bells and whistles..... a ll with clucks and purrs. Read an article in Turkey and Turkey Hunting many years ago on the cluck call and how to use.... wish I could find the issue but have lost it. Anyway. God bless and get your wife,child,friend,grandchild out in the turkey woods while we still can.

[WillowRidgeCalls]

The advice given to you is very good advice, and a lot of hens don't talk going to a tom unless they want something.
There are 3 types of Yelps. A soft yelp used for greeting or answering a tom or other hens, not useally more than 2 or 3 yelps. A lost bird or assembly call, a long string of yelps 15-25 non stop, varying in pitch, loudness and raspy as you get deeper into the call. An excited hen yelp, high pitched and fast useally 3-5 with cutts added in with them.
There are 2 types of Clucks, soft clucks used when feeding or just moving around, and also for greeting, just 1 or 2. An excited cluck used when a tom comes to a hen, 3 or 4 mixed in with some purrs and very soft and higher pitched sounding.
The Purrs, there are 3 types. A fighting purr, deep, loud and semi-fast. An excited purr, very soft fast purr varying in pitch, used when a tom comes in. A feeding purr, a little louder, short purr non varying in pitch, used when feeding with other birds.
Your Cutts, there are 2 types. Aggressive cutts, loud aggressive, varying in speed and pitch, used when challenging a hen, 5-10 cutts. The Ignored cutts, used when a tom is ignoring a hen, loud fast non varying pitch with a couple of yelps mixed in.
The Cackle, there are 2 types. Flydown cackle, loud varying in pitch and speed. Ground cackle, fast, non varying in pitch with yelps mixed in.

[chris1221]

ive had a bad habit this season of getting too excited when a tom is coming in and calling too much, only to have him hang up and fade off.  on atleast 5 occasions this year ive had a visual on the bird and had him do this.  on a few other occasions ive had em coming in hot, out of sight, called too much and had  em fade away.  since ive got the next two days off work, im gonna try this minimal cluck and purr theory and see if it works.  the hard part will be fighting the urge to keep calling haha.  i should probly leave all but one of my calls in the truck to fight the temptation

[mark hay]

Hello Chris ,,,welcome .
 I too have been fighting the URGE to call , call , call. I have been really bad at doing that in the past . I killed a few birds using that tactic , but the ones that came so far then drifted off out number the kills ,,,BY FAR.
I have been mentally going over this urge in an attempt to wean myself of the wrong .
 Just yesterday morning I stood by the truck and listened to a hard gobbling bird . He was just about 150 yards from me. Off to my right , and within 100 yards of the bird was 3 hunters . Each time the tom gobbled one of those fellers would yelp a few times . That bird stood his ground for over a half hour ,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,then went away gobbling ,,,,then went silent.
 I have done the same thing , in the past , as those fellers . But , I am learning and believe I have overcome the urge . Simply by knowing that he is hearing all the calls I am making , no matter how soft , no matter how few .
 After locating and moving in on a bird , the toughest part is self control and being comfortable so we don't fidget and move trying to relieve our backside of pain .
 The lack of selfcontrol in calling is a common mistake among a lot of hunters .
 EXAMPLE :
  Last week a hunter would go into this set of ridges and set up for a while . Throughout the morning he would move and set up . and again ,,,and again . Each time he moved he would repeat the same calling tactic . Yelp on a box , followed by a gobble call . Everytime I was near that area I could hear him doing the same things over and over .
 This week , I went into that same set of ridges and had the bird come to within 20 yards . I should have killed him too. But as Mr. Spencer says, '' SET UP IN THE WRONG PLACE AND YOUR BEAT ''. somthing like that . I should have been standing instead of sitting in this case .
 That bird came without hesitation to just a few very soft clucks . His tagalong jake friend was within 10 yards of me on the steep hillside . Standing would have allowed me to see down the slope and at the least got a shot at the old bird . 
 I am not the first to say it ,,,,,when it comes to calling ,,,''LESS IS MORE'',,,,,,GIVE IT TO HIM SOFTLY, GIVE HIM JUST ENOUGH

[DeanoZ]

I have to believe Mark and others who have long touted the less is more philosophy are right.  I've only been seriously turkey hunting for two seasons, and I can say with great confidence I have yet to hear a hen yelp in the woods I hunt.  Not saying it doesn't happen..but its far and few between.  In my first week this season I was a yelping fool from first light to the last 15 minutes of hunting I threw out yelps every half hour or so..mixed in some clucks and purrs and occasional cuts.  In one instance I had a Gobbler within 100 yards, was yelping to him and his gobbles just grew more distant.  So like you Chris I am not going to yelp anymore..I plan to stick with soft clucks and purrs for the remainder of my hunt this upcoming week and see where that gets me.

Mark my question is, how often will you throw clucks and purrs out?  Now I know your probably going to say "it depends", but lets say your within 300 yards of a roost location, but you don't have eyes on the roost or where they pitch down?  Is it too much calling to throw out a cluck and purr here and there every half hour..or is it your position that you only do it in response to a gobble?  I think it would really help those of us who are still green and wet behind the ears if you and the other seasoned hunters/pros could lend some perspective.

[mark hay]

I don't generally call while they are still on the limb . There are exceptions to every rule ,,,,even my own rules .
 I like to see where the birds go right off that limb . Sometimes they glide for several hundred yards . Others it is in close proximity to the roost tree . If he or they hit the ground close , then I'll give them the faintest of clucks ,or very soft tree yelps and a cluck . I do this mostly on a mouthcall . These yelps are done with only the slightest of opening to my mouth . Sometimes I don't open my  mouth at all , depending on how close he may be .
 If he/they pitched off for some distance I may relocate , and as I move try to figure where they are headed . In this instance I will not call until I am comfortable about there location and mine , or if I have heard another hunter in the nearby area .
 
 
 A little off the specific subject ,,,about them hearing your calls.
 
 If you haven't done this already , I encourage you to BEGIN doing it on a regular basis , when you are out , whether hunting , scouting , anything .
 My hearing is not what it used to be . I fired way too many rounds through various revolvers and pistols without using ear protection .
  I watch crows , everytime I am outdoors . Estimating the yardage and noting the clarity and volume I hear the noisy predators . How well we can hear anything at a given distance varies by reason of the wind and wind direction , and whether or not the sound is from 2 or 3 hundred feet above the ground , or in a tree or on the ground.
  I feel that if I can hear a crow clearly at say 500 yards , while he is in a tree top , and knowing how well a turkey can hear , it helps me determine how loud I'll make the call . If I'm in an area I know or think there is a turkey and I also hear a squirrel barrking on the next ridge over , and the pileated woodpecker making his loud calls , my clucks and purrs will be soft and faint . By faint , I mean I doubt a hunter could hear them at 75 yards , but a turkey could hear it farther .
 Being able to judge distance to a gobbling bird , with all the new leaves on now is somewhat difficult . Yesterday morning I heard the faintest gobble . So faint I could not tell which direction it came from . Knowing a little about this birds habits I went in the direction I had suspected him to be . I was correct ,,,this time ,,,and by moving 100 yards I could hear him plainly now . True , I don't know how much ground he covered  or exactly the lay of the terrain where he was .
 
 In the predawn of a still morning ,,,,,I can hear roosters crowing over a mile away from about any ridge top in the hunting area . How far MORE can a turkey hear ?
 Coyotes and turkeys are near twins when it comes to eyesight and hearing , picking up movement . Pick a morning when sound carries well and you can hear crows , or roosters 1/2 to 1 mile . Park your truck and close the door with a solid click. Drag your feet as you walk in loose gravel . Cough or sneeze . Load shells into the magazine and cycle the gun . Drag your feet through grass or leaves .
 Every critter out there hears this and takes notice . True , some of these sounds simply cannot be avoided , with out parking somewhere and walking for a half hour to where you want to hunt .
 Some animals don't pay as much attention to these sounds as others . The turkey , I believe he does . The coyote I know he does . Deer , they have a great amount of curiosity , many sounds I feel do not bother them .
  Remember , the turkey is not alone when it comes to being able to pinpoint where the sound comes from .
 
 I said all this to just maybe help you get into a system of THOUGHT about different aspects of some things we deal with as hunters .
 
 When I'm moving through an area of woods and the small native birds are within 20 yards and seem unconcerned about me , I feel I am doing it right . As the late Skeeter Skelton put it ,,,''INDIAN UP ON 'EM''.

[kperham]

Mark, while I'm new to the forum...I've been in the turkey woods for over 20 years. I have to tell you that I am impressed with knowledge and wisdom.