Over calling

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1Morgan
 
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Over calling

Postby 1Morgan » February 8th, 2014, 7:16 am

This will be my 6th season. I've had 2 excellent mentors and had great success. One taught me soft calling the other taught me aggressive calling. I just can't seem to stop!! I know I should, I do just fine when a bird is gobbling and coming. But, when it's quiet I will yack and yack. I'm sure I turn more birds away but the silence is deafening. How do I stop?
South Carolina Low Country

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retranger
 
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Re: Over calling

Postby retranger » February 8th, 2014, 8:54 am

1Morgan wrote: I'm sure I turn more birds away

How do you know?? I sat once for over 2 hours,,,,calling on one call, wait about 15 minutes then call on a different call and kept repeating, then to my surprise I got a gobble and 3 jakes showed up. You never know what is right :) :) You are there to have fun and if calling gives you satisfaction then I would have at it ;) ;)
What works for me may not work for you and what works today may not work tomorrow
Doug <- <- ~<- <- <- ~ <-

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kygobbler
 
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Re: Over calling

Postby kygobbler » February 8th, 2014, 2:45 pm

1Morgan wrote:How do I stop?


Just leave the calls at the house. :o :lol: On a boring day try practicing your soft calling on different calls. You never know, one could sneak up on you.
Is it turkey season yet?

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ylpnfol
 
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Re: Over calling

Postby ylpnfol » February 8th, 2014, 9:25 pm

Blind calling is fine, do it all the time, and I'm not scared to reach out and try to touch 'em, just look at your watch, or phone, and call every 15 or 20 mins, take a nap between calling , maybe ole tom will tap you on the shoulder to wake you.....
David

You never know, unless you go

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WillowRidgeCalls
 
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Re: Over calling

Postby WillowRidgeCalls » February 9th, 2014, 4:28 pm

The term Over Calling is misunderstood. Birds are very vocal 90% of the time, and talk quite a bit, but they use a certain call very little, more in a short series then the same call over and over. That's where most hunters make the mistakes with over calling. We get the idea that we have to sound perfect on a call in order to call a bird in, very untrue. Your cadence is where it make a big difference in calling in a bird, no matter what you or your call sounds like, if your cadence is good you'll call birds in. How often you call is determined by how the birds are reacting that day, if they are talking quite a bit then there is no need to wait 15/20 minutes between calls, but keep it in a short series of calls, 2/3 cutts not 7 or 8. Blind calling you have to see what the birds want? Give them some different series of calls to see what they respond to best, some like a short series and some may like a longer series?Try different volumes or tones, don't get hung up using the same tone and volume every time you do a series, change it up.
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Fan Club
 
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Re: Over calling

Postby Fan Club » February 17th, 2014, 1:29 pm

1Morgan wrote: I do just fine when a bird is gobbling and coming. But, when it's quiet I will yack and yack. I'm sure I turn more birds away but the silence is deafening. How do I stop?


I hear you. The part that is hard to grasp is that the majority of the time birds don't gobble all the way to the gun, that stuff is for the videos and it's great when it happens. But all of the standard cliche's..."Take the bird's temperature"..."Give the turkeys what they want"...are predicated on toms that are gobbling. But what about the toms that are not gobbling? In that regard, the more you call, the more you tip your hand on your location and the fact that you are not a real turkey to the birds you don't hear or see.

In human behavior, nobody likes a loud mouth or a bully. By calling too long and too loud that is exactly what you are portraying yourself to be to the turkeys. Add in the fact that if a tom is already with hens, they may take him the other way if you over call. I never kept a log book, but I've tagged about 4 dozen gobblers in multiple states over 20 seasons...this is not to brag, but to illustrate a point. I'm certain that 2/3 of those birds never gobbled; they either came in silent alone, came in silent with some buddies or were led in by hens.

Here is one of my preferred methods developed with a lot of trial and error for cold calling or gobbling birds in the far distance, perhaps even off your property. Select three calls that you want to use and lay them on the ground in a small semicircle. I like to start with a box call because it is generally the loudest. Go through a good sequence of at least 30 seconds with loud yelps and some cuts thrown in, maybe a cackle, don't be afraid to make some racket. Set down the call and time 10 minutes on your watch... do not be tempted to call. I like to use a wing bone next for the different tone, just a couple short series of standard yelping at medium volume. A mouth call would work well here. Again, wait 10 minutes by the watch. For the third call I like a peg and slate because you can get real soft with it. Let out some very subdued short 3-4 note yelping sequences with some soft purring thrown in, maybe a cluck or two. If a tom honors any of your calls with a gobble during this setup, stop calling. If you see a silent tom headed your way stop calling. He's already heard and pinpointed you, let his curiosity do the rest.

I've tagged at least a dozen gobblers with this exact method and the majority of them have come in silent, usually near the 25 to 30 minute mark. This method works well with or without decoys and feel free to mix in some non-vocalized turkey sounds such as scratching in the leaves or imitating wing beats. The theory behind all of this is that the birds heard your first call even if they didn't respond (they did.) Each subsequent call needs to be at less volume and intensity than the previous in case unseen birds are approaching (they are). Save your softest confidence calling for the end of the setup. If you continue to make loud racket with the same call, you run the risk of spooking approaching silent birds that think they should be able to see you by now. I also believe it's important to employ three different calls, don't continue using the same call over and over. This will add to the realism, give the illusion that there is more than one turkey and the difference in tone can sound like birds moving or facing different directions.

One final thought, try to call using the sequences I mentioned and for good reason. Too many hunters want to throw out every call they know in the same sequence just to hear themselves- yelping, cutting, clucking, cackles and even purring. Real birds yelp and cut loudly when they are aggressive and excited, and purr and cluck softly when they are content and relaxed. They don't go through the entire range of turkey emotion in one calling sequence. Makes sense... but is seldom talked about.

There you have it, my favorite and most successful setup calling tactic, hard earned over 20 turkey seasons. Be sure and post a picture of your gobbler. ;)

Jeff
<- <- <- <- <- <- <- <- <-
"The joy of living is his, who has the heart to demand it." Teddy Roosevelt

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Cut N Run
 
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Re: Over calling

Postby Cut N Run » April 1st, 2016, 7:06 am

Fan Club wrote:
1Morgan wrote: I do just fine when a bird is gobbling and coming. But, when it's quiet I will yack and yack. I'm sure I turn more birds away but the silence is deafening. How do I stop?


I hear you. The part that is hard to grasp is that the majority of the time birds don't gobble all the way to the gun, that stuff is for the videos and it's great when it happens. But all of the standard cliche's..."Take the bird's temperature"..."Give the turkeys what they want"...are predicated on toms that are gobbling. But what about the toms that are not gobbling? In that regard, the more you call, the more you tip your hand on your location and the fact that you are not a real turkey to the birds you don't hear or see.

In human behavior, nobody likes a loud mouth or a bully. By calling too long and too loud that is exactly what you are portraying yourself to be to the turkeys. Add in the fact that if a tom is already with hens, they may take him the other way if you over call. I never kept a log book, but I've tagged about 4 dozen gobblers in multiple states over 20 seasons...this is not to brag, but to illustrate a point. I'm certain that 2/3 of those birds never gobbled; they either came in silent alone, came in silent with some buddies or were led in by hens.

Here is one of my preferred methods developed with a lot of trial and error for cold calling or gobbling birds in the far distance, perhaps even off your property. Select three calls that you want to use and lay them on the ground in a small semicircle. I like to start with a box call because it is generally the loudest. Go through a good sequence of at least 30 seconds with loud yelps and some cuts thrown in, maybe a cackle, don't be afraid to make some racket. Set down the call and time 10 minutes on your watch... do not be tempted to call. I like to use a wing bone next for the different tone, just a couple short series of standard yelping at medium volume. A mouth call would work well here. Again, wait 10 minutes by the watch. For the third call I like a peg and slate because you can get real soft with it. Let out some very subdued short 3-4 note yelping sequences with some soft purring thrown in, maybe a cluck or two. If a tom honors any of your calls with a gobble during this setup, stop calling. If you see a silent tom headed your way stop calling. He's already heard and pinpointed you, let his curiosity do the rest.

I've tagged at least a dozen gobblers with this exact method and the majority of them have come in silent, usually near the 25 to 30 minute mark. This method works well with or without decoys and feel free to mix in some non-vocalized turkey sounds such as scratching in the leaves or imitating wing beats. The theory behind all of this is that the birds heard your first call even if they didn't respond (they did.) Each subsequent call needs to be at less volume and intensity than the previous in case unseen birds are approaching (they are). Save your softest confidence calling for the end of the setup. If you continue to make loud racket with the same call, you run the risk of spooking approaching silent birds that think they should be able to see you by now. I also believe it's important to employ three different calls, don't continue using the same call over and over. This will add to the realism, give the illusion that there is more than one turkey and the difference in tone can sound like birds moving or facing different directions.

One final thought, try to call using the sequences I mentioned and for good reason. Too many hunters want to throw out every call they know in the same sequence just to hear themselves- yelping, cutting, clucking, cackles and even purring. Real birds yelp and cut loudly when they are aggressive and excited, and purr and cluck softly when they are content and relaxed. They don't go through the entire range of turkey emotion in one calling sequence. Makes sense... but is seldom talked about.

There you have it, my favorite and most successful setup calling tactic, hard earned over 20 turkey seasons. Be sure and post a picture of your gobbler. ;)

Jeff
<- <- <- <- <- <- <- <- <-



I use this exact same sequence of calling on progressively quieter calls and it has worked very well for me too. What made me alter my calling method was having a live hen come in to investigate my calls one day. I'd started with cutting, then switched to yelping. That hen came towards me, cutting all the way, then she yelped quieter as she approached. By the time she she was walking around where I was set up, her calls had gotten incredibly soft and were a fraction the volume of what they were when she first responded. By the time she left, her calls remained quiet as she wandered through the woods.

Last year, another hen took her time coming to find the hen she heard and did a half circle around the downed tree I was set up against. Her calls never got loud and I'd describe them more as conversational than being used as a way of hailing the attention of other birds. I believe that quieter follow-up calling after the initial response limits the possibility of getting pinpointed by the gobbler and keeps him guessing at your exact location, which might make him more likely to stay in the area to search for the hen.

Jim
Luck Counts, good or bad

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Gobblerman
 
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Re: Over calling

Postby Gobblerman » April 4th, 2016, 2:31 pm

Although I agree with much that has been said above, I also firmly believe that you can "conservative call" yourself right out of the ball game in some situations. We all carry our own pre-conceived notions about how we must call in any given circumstance to insure ourselves of the best possible chance for success, but "pigeon-holing" ourselves to a degree that we are not willing to venture outside those boundaries can be a mistake, as well.

I regularly hunt with folks every spring that I take out because they think I am the "expert" and they think I "supposedly" know what I am doing. My outlook with them is to give them some guidance but, at the same time, let them participate in the hunt by letting them call and make some tactical decisions. Mind you, I have been doing this for several decades now. I can't tell you how many times I have let people do things and call to birds while I sat there and said to myself,..."We got no chance in hell of getting a bird to come to us by doing what we are doing and calling this way",...only to have a gobbler come running in like he had just found his true love.

This has happened many times, not only here on my home turf, but also in places where turkeys are not supposed to behave that way. In fact, just a couple of weeks ago it happened in Mississippi,...where supposedly some of the smartest turkeys on the planet reside.

The point is that, even with lots of experience hunting these birds, none of us really knows what is going to turn any one of them on at any given time. All we can do is run through all the possibilities, hoping we don't mess up somewhere along the way, and hoping that we eventually hit on something that pushes the right button. Sometimes the "right button" is pushed by the things we think will work, and sometimes that button is pushed by calling and tactics that we would never have imagined would make a gobbler come to us. I know,...I have seen it happen over and over and over again.

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mark hay
 
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Re: Over calling

Postby mark hay » April 4th, 2016, 5:05 pm

I too have been in on the excessive calling and the loud n long stuff too .In spite of it I killed a few birds . But nowadays I speak softly and in short sentences , I mean short call sequence and more and more leaf scratching. Seems each passing year allows me experience something in the turkey woods that simply proves to me that a wild turkey has very incredible hearing .

Realistic cadence in a realistic tone ,,,,,,,,realistic scratching in a realistic cadence

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Treerooster
 
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Re: Over calling

Postby Treerooster » April 11th, 2016, 9:47 am

Gobblerman wrote:Although I agree with much that has been said above, I also firmly believe that you can "conservative call" yourself right out of the ball game in some situations. We all carry our own pre-conceived notions about how we must call in any given circumstance to insure ourselves of the best possible chance for success, but "pigeon-holing" ourselves to a degree that we are not willing to venture outside those boundaries can be a mistake, as well.

I regularly hunt with folks every spring that I take out because they think I am the "expert" and they think I "supposedly" know what I am doing. My outlook with them is to give them some guidance but, at the same time, let them participate in the hunt by letting them call and make some tactical decisions. Mind you, I have been doing this for several decades now. I can't tell you how many times I have let people do things and call to birds while I sat there and said to myself,..."We got no chance in hell of getting a bird to come to us by doing what we are doing and calling this way",...only to have a gobbler come running in like he had just found his true love.

This has happened many times, not only here on my home turf, but also in places where turkeys are not supposed to behave that way. In fact, just a couple of weeks ago it happened in Mississippi,...where supposedly some of the smartest turkeys on the planet reside.

The point is that, even with lots of experience hunting these birds, none of us really knows what is going to turn any one of them on at any given time. All we can do is run through all the possibilities, hoping we don't mess up somewhere along the way, and hoping that we eventually hit on something that pushes the right button. Sometimes the "right button" is pushed by the things we think will work, and sometimes that button is pushed by calling and tactics that we would never have imagined would make a gobbler come to us. I know,...I have seen it happen over and over and over again.


I agree a lot with what Jim has said here, especially the "pre conceived notion" idea. Limiting myself to one type of calling only limits the possibility of my success IMO. Calling situations can be very dynamic and change from day to day or even during the calling session. Sometimes I might know what call will work, but more often I am making an educated guess based on my past experience and thinking about the situation at hand.

I will say the more I know about the recent history of a bird or flock I am calling to the more I know how to call.
As far as this turkey thing......I know enough...to know enough...that I don't know enough

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